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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies

    Poll

    Should we add a system for Oracles and Anomalies?

    [ 13 ]
    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_lcap87%[Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_rcap [87%] 
    [ 1 ]
    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_lcap7%[Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_rcap [7%] 
    [ 1 ]
    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_lcap6%[Poll] Oracles & Anomalies I_vote_rcap [6%] 

    Total Votes: 15
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    Nero
    Nero

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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies Empty [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies

    Post by Nero 30th April 2022, 8:21 am

    Heya, Joh here.
    I'm here today to extend a question to the community, as I was approached about this multiple times.

    With the introduction of Pergrande comes a new kind of power, which we usually refer to as Psionic Power, the power of the mind, whereas Magic constitutes the power of the Soul utilizing mana or MP, Blood Magic constitutes the power of lifeforce utilizing health or HP, and Combat Arts constitutes the power of the body utilizing stamina or SP. The wielders of such Psionic Powers are called Espers, something primarily developed and used in and by the nation of Pergrande.

    In lore, Espers have access to several pre-made Psionic abilities that can be utilized by any sufficiently powerful Esper, whereas more powerful Espers gain access to something called Oracles, essentially a differentiation, diversification, and specialization of their psionic abilities. Oracles are a stand-in for Magics in regards to Espers, and Oracles utilize something called "Anomalies" in place of spells to modify and interact with the world around the Esper. Espers, however, unlike mages, only get access to a single Oracle where mages can learn multiple magics. Once someone would become an Esper, they would sacrifice their ability to utilize magic and use Psionics instead. Oracles could also not be paired with magic or magic power. As such, the Esper in question could have one singular Oracle application, which, however, in turn, would be quite a bit stronger than magic to elevate it to roughly the same level.

    For reference, I will also link the ideas I had for Aleksandra Polyakov, the Esper in charge of the Pergranti Army in the ongoing Embers Lore Event.


    1) Instead of Magic or Combat Arts, Espers of Pergrande of sufficient power (Category 2, Category 1, Category 0. Espers of Category 3 have access to pre-made Psionic Abilities only) have access to so-called "Oracles", which rely on the use of Psionic energy, the power of the mind, where magic relies on Ethernano, the power of the soul, and combat arts rely on Stamina, the power of the body. Espers can only possess one single Oracle, which is usually hereditary or a more advanced / modified version of an inherited Oracle. Seldomly it occurs that Oracles without prior history of Psionic powers in a family or that Oracles completely different from a family's usual brand of Oracles awaken in an Esper. As such, Oracles, in their base form, are stronger than both magic and combat arts.

    2) "Spells" and "Techniques" are replaced by "Anomalies" in Oracles. Magic Power, or MP, is replaced by AP, Anomaly Points, which is used to produce these Anomalies. Oracles and Anomalies are exclusive to Espers from Pergrande used by the Event Team for site lore and story / event thread purposes. As such, their stats specifics are up to the Loremaster or Event Team member developing and apping them and are dependent on the position, lineage, and strength of an Esper in lore. As Aleksandra Polyakov is among the most powerful Espers of Pergrande, her Oracle and Anomalies are, as such, among the most powerful in existence, and her stats and abilities reflect that.

    You can also find information on Espers and Psionics in the current lore in the Pergrande Section of the Official Nations page, as well as the Pergrande section of the additional Lore Information page.

    The question that I ask is: Is this system something players would like to utilize for their own characters or would like to have as an option? If you have an opinion on this matter, please do vote on the poll above or leave a comment with your thoughts in this thread. As usual, please keep any comments constructive.


    Note: Please vote on the poll with only one of your accounts. Based on the fact that people have cheated on polls in this way before, a list of accounts who have voted will be displayed for the poll, though it will not show the option players have voted for. Thank you for understanding.


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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies Empty Re: [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies

    Post by Tsubasa Kageyama 30th April 2022, 8:38 am

    I think it's great to have more and more ways to diversify our characters and utilize different forms of... super... something. Superpowers. However my main concern would be balance for the Dev Team. If it's not going to be an issue to make or balance, then it could only be a boon to have. If, however, it adds another layer of bullshittery in everything that is made going forward, then it likely is more trouble than its worth.

    An esper character sounds fun as hell though.


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    Post by Thatcywalker 30th April 2022, 8:44 am

    As one of the people who approached you on this, yeah I think it sounds very cool to work with. I like both the lore involved with this idea and the potential to mess around with a new system!

    My issue though is that to become a oracle you have to focus on one idea. For some people it's not a problem since their likely happy with a simple one app solution. For me though I do enjoy the flexibility afforded from multiple magic/sp apps. Besides I have no idea how to cram three magics worth of spells and UA's in a single app without making three versions of the same fireball or mind grab.

    Now given how early the system is currently, maybe what I said above won't be a issue in the future and I hope this is the case. Still I am concerned that as it stands it will be too niche to gather a large enough following that will make it worth building and learning how to grade this new system(Unless the designer is fine with this scenario).


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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies Darksteel

    Fraag
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    Post by Fraag 30th April 2022, 9:16 am

    Well, it looks a bit complicated, but I'm a rather simple person, so yeah. In any regard, although it's got a rather cool-looking look to it, I wonder, won't this create more hoops for Staff to jump? If Staff is fine with jumping the hoops, then it's fine by me.

    I was also just wondering, though: with the extreme versatility of our magic system, can't someone just reword stuff, like @Knight Owl did, to result in an impressive, yet unique magic system of their own? If that is the case, why bother with Oracles having their own unique (and potentially convoluted) system? Or could it not be like Combat Arts, which are just a slight adjustment to the Magic System? Way I see it, there's going to be a whole new system for that, yeah?

    So on the one hand, it looks very fun and unique. On the other, it may be complicated and fundamentally redundant. But these are just my thoughts.


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    Post by Samira Nassar 30th April 2022, 10:19 am

    This site has a history of adding new things that people get super excited about but once developed and implemented this new thing is left to collect dust and/or be completely forgotten about. I consider this to be another one of those things. It may not be forgotten about since I'm sure it'll have its own big section in the Magic Rules, but I don't see very many people using it. While the use of Psionic abilities has been magic-related in the past it seems the new focus on that is for that particular set to be exclusive to Pergrande and those characters that come from some form of Pergrandian heritage. This group is a little too small for a completely new system. If a new system is to be developed it would make more sense if it was something that a larger number of characters could make use of. I doubt the new system would be locked to being only for Pergrande characters (at least I would hope not) but there would be hoops to jump in the lore and it'd probably slightly ruin what makes Pergrande powers unique and separate from the world of typical magic users. I was for Combat Arts being made for those characters that use that style of fighting and the possibility that their characters do not use magic. I have seen so many of those types over the years. This though, I just can't get past the fact it'd likely be yet another thing that would be a giant waste of time to make. I hope I'm wrong though.

    Balancing this also worries me a bit. What we already have is being altered and re-balanced quite often. This just seems like it'd be even more of a headache to get right, especially given it's been said it'd be quite powerful to start with since it'd be one app instead of three. That is another thing that makes me question this new style a bit. I'm not sure based on that how much more powerful this would be. The power of a magic, and three of them at that, is dependent on the one writing the magic. We can't exactly stack anything anymore besides buffs and the benefits of a magic are dependent on the combinations of varying magics. These are just a couple of things at the top of my head that come to mind and there is so much more. This seems like it'd be a balancing nightmare and I do not envy the one that would have to do this.

    That being said though, I don't care either way. As long as what we currently have doesn't get nerfed in order to make this stand out more. I still think this will probably be too niche for an entirely new form of "magic", but if someone really wants to go through the pain of making this and balancing it then who am I to stop them?


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    Post by Riana Maren 30th April 2022, 2:52 pm

    plug and play only bc y'all know what i think abt this


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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies TF1LSEK
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    Post by EISNIK003 30th April 2022, 4:07 pm

    Since I happen to use a semi-ESPer charrie, I would definitely be interested in having something like this to look forward to if a half magus/half esper can access such a thing, ofc.


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    Knight Owl
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    Post by Knight Owl 1st May 2022, 9:24 pm

    It would be interesting as an option or an entirely different system for me, since my main character is an esper himself, and that he's half-Pergrandian. When Combat Arts were introduced, I took the opportunity to have all my apps have the Combat Arts magic type so I can use the strength stat for his telekinetic powers. However, I do wish to retain the ability to summon weapons and armor with as well as undergo metamorphosis, if possible. Then again, there's always reflavoring of magic systems so, mechanically, they are labelled as "Combat Arts" but ICly, the character in question is using psionics.


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    Post by Nero 3rd May 2022, 1:23 am

    I think I should respond to a few questions and arguments that have been brought up in the replies here, most of which were really good points, to clarify the idea a little more and give people some additional information / feedback. As always, I am open to discussion.

    Tsubasa Kageyama wrote:I think it's great to have more and more ways to diversify our characters and utilize different forms of... super... something. Superpowers. However my main concern would be balance for the Dev Team. If it's not going to be an issue to make or balance, then it could only be a boon to have. If, however, it adds another layer of bullshittery in everything that is made going forward, then it likely is more trouble than its worth.

    An esper character sounds fun as hell though.

    I would be developing this system at a slow-ish pace so I don't think it would be a concern in the grand scheme of things. My to-do list for the site is massive and my time limited anyway, so what does one more do, really? As for balancing, it would, of course, be balanced strictly against 3 fully fleshed-out magics, so it would, in the grand scheme of things, be no more or less powerful, or at least, that is the plan. For magic and combat arts themselves there would likely not much that would change, if anything at all, so no bullshittery in that regard. Haha. I hope.

    Thatcywalker wrote:As one of the people who approached you on this, yeah I think it sounds very cool to work with. I like both the lore involved with this idea and the potential to mess around with a new system!

    My issue though is that to become a oracle you have to focus on one idea. For some people it's not a problem since their likely happy with a simple one app solution. For me though I do enjoy the flexibility afforded from multiple magic/sp apps. Besides I have no idea how to cram three magics worth of spells and UA's in a single app without making three versions of the same fireball or mind grab.

    Now given how early the system is currently, maybe what I said above won't be a issue in the future and I hope this is the case. Still I am concerned that as it stands it will be too niche to gather a large enough following that will make it worth building and learning how to grade this new system(Unless the designer is fine with this scenario).

    The idea that I was discussing with some people and the planning we are making in regards to oracles is that people would be able to assemble a number of varied abilities based on pre-developed esper techniques, as lower-ranking espers do not initially have access to an oracle. The collection of abilities you would wield, as well as the oracle you unlock for yourself later, would be customizable by yourself, just like magic and combat arts.

    The diversity in regards to themes and variability suffers based on the fact that you would be limited to one application over three, that much is true, but arguably, based on the current meta, the majority of spell slots are redundant either way, as most seem to be turned into copypaste passive or active buffs, especially at higher ranks where oracles would actually be utilized. I'll think about this, but lore consistency in regards to this is important to me, and oracles are invariably singular and tied to a specific theme based on heritage and genetics. Taking this into consideration, though, I'm sure we can find a middle ground.

    Fraag wrote:Well, it looks a bit complicated, but I'm a rather simple person, so yeah. In any regard, although it's got a rather cool-looking look to it, I wonder, won't this create more hoops for Staff to jump? If Staff is fine with jumping the hoops, then it's fine by me.

    I was also just wondering, though: with the extreme versatility of our magic system, can't someone just reword stuff, like @Knight Owl did, to result in an impressive, yet unique magic system of their own? If that is the case, why bother with Oracles having their own unique (and potentially convoluted) system? Or could it not be like Combat Arts, which are just a slight adjustment to the Magic System? Way I see it, there's going to be a whole new system for that, yeah?

    So on the one hand, it looks very fun and unique. On the other, it may be complicated and fundamentally redundant. But these are just my thoughts.

    As if work for staff was ever a concern on this site. Haha. Technically, in terms of raw practicability, you are entirely correct. We could accomplish all of this via the magic system alone, but the fact of the matter is that oracles are, when compared to magic, structurally and fundamentally different in the lore, which warrants at least overarching differences in how their system is put together. It could be built within the confines of the magic system, but it would be far more interesting and engaging if it wasn't, and did not just constitute a reskin of existing mechanics. Further, Combat Arts are intended to be something wildly different from actual psionics, and while it was used as a modified basis for psionic powers in this setting before, it is not something that is in any way lore consistent. Combat Arts are meant to focus on the physical application of supernatural powers. I understand your point and where you are coming from on this, but I think it would be a fundamentally different, but ultimately better system if implemented in the way described previously.

    Samira Nassar wrote:This site has a history of adding new things that people get super excited about but once developed and implemented this new thing is left to collect dust and/or be completely forgotten about. I consider this to be another one of those things. It may not be forgotten about since I'm sure it'll have its own big section in the Magic Rules, but I don't see very many people using it. While the use of Psionic abilities has been magic-related in the past it seems the new focus on that is for that particular set to be exclusive to Pergrande and those characters that come from some form of Pergrandian heritage. This group is a little too small for a completely new system. If a new system is to be developed it would make more sense if it was something that a larger number of characters could make use of. I doubt the new system would be locked to being only for Pergrande characters (at least I would hope not) but there would be hoops to jump in the lore and it'd probably slightly ruin what makes Pergrande powers unique and separate from the world of typical magic users. I was for Combat Arts being made for those characters that use that style of fighting and the possibility that their characters do not use magic. I have seen so many of those types over the years. This though, I just can't get past the fact it'd likely be yet another thing that would be a giant waste of time to make. I hope I'm wrong though.

    Balancing this also worries me a bit. What we already have is being altered and re-balanced quite often. This just seems like it'd be even more of a headache to get right, especially given it's been said it'd be quite powerful to start with since it'd be one app instead of three. That is another thing that makes me question this new style a bit. I'm not sure based on that how much more powerful this would be. The power of a magic, and three of them at that, is dependent on the one writing the magic. We can't exactly stack anything anymore besides buffs and the benefits of a magic are dependent on the combinations of varying magics. These are just a couple of things at the top of my head that come to mind and there is so much more. This seems like it'd be a balancing nightmare and I do not envy the one that would have to do this.

    That being said though, I don't care either way. As long as what we currently have doesn't get nerfed in order to make this stand out more. I still think this will probably be too niche for an entirely new form of "magic", but if someone really wants to go through the pain of making this and balancing it then who am I to stop them?

    Skipping the opinions on what is and isn't popular or whether this would be a waste of time because I have nothing really factual or informative to say about those particular points.

    As per our lore, Psionics and espers are not exclusive to Pergrande at all, it is merely the case that Pergrande focusses on the applications of these kinds of supernatural powers especially and that other nations generally disregard psionics, considering them underwhelming or obsolete (similarly to how modern society, for example, would consider steam-powered technology obsolete when compared to pure electricity), meaning that all kinds of characters may potentially use and benefit from this system at their own discretion. This is also specified in our additional lore and our nations page, so your hopes are, at least in this scenario, warranted.

    As for balancing, I can only try to reassure players again that the balance for magic would not change. The oracle in question would be balanced against 3 full magics at maximum and the things one could accomplish via the use of psionics vs the use of magic and associated systems would be roughly comparable to different points among the rank progression. As for what exactly players would do with their full oracle once everything is unlocked, that, too, would be up to them. As mentioned before, at least a portion of psionics would be pre-designed and pre-balanced, and I reckon that it would be quite a bit simpler and easier to use when compared to magic, especially initially. In the end, though, I would leave that up to individual players. Magic benefits, buffs, etc. are a factor in this, of course. The ideas for this system are in its infancy, so I can't really offer much more than this, regrettably, but I will of course keep players in the loop, especially in this thread itself.

    Riana Maren wrote:plug and play only bc y'all know what i think abt this

    My brother in christ, you know it.

    EISNIK003 wrote:Since I happen to use a semi-ESPer charrie, I would definitely be interested in having something like this to look forward to if a half magus/half esper can access such a thing, ofc.

    Magic and Oracles, as described before, could not be combined within the system, as Psionics are wildly different from magic and how they would be applied, so going half-half would not be something achievable. You could emulate the use of psionic power via magic, of course, but it would still be classed as magic and magic alone, both in and out of character.

    Knight Owl wrote:It would be interesting as an option or an entirely different system for me, since my main character is an esper himself, and that he's half-Pergrandian. When Combat Arts were introduced, I took the opportunity to have all my apps have the Combat Arts magic type so I can use the strength stat for his telekinetic powers. However, I do wish to retain the ability to summon weapons and armor with as well as undergo metamorphosis, if possible. Then again, there's always reflavoring of magic systems so, mechanically, they are labelled as "Combat Arts" but ICly, the character in question is using psionics.

    Based on the differences between magic and psionics, psionics would be entirely incapable of transforming a person's body or summoning / producing equipment just like magic would. As I mentioned before with Fraag, the capabilities of Combat Arts and Magic are wildly different compared to the in-universe applications of psionics. You could create Combat Arts that resemble psionics, but they would not and indeed could not be actual psionics, and they could not be classed as such out of character, and would not be classed as such in-character. The same applies to magic. If you wish to utilize psionics, I am afraid that you would have to find a compromise somewhere along the way and adjust to this system or get rid of the "psionics" moniker for your Combat Arts.


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    Medeia
    Medeia

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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies Empty Re: [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies

    Post by Medeia 3rd May 2022, 9:35 am

    - 1 app instead of 3.
    - Pre made abilities which will make said app far easier to not only create but for staff to grade.
    - An opportunity for those who have made a lot of magic in the past to try something a little different.
    - A chance to delve into the lore of Pergrande and write a magic hating sack of sh..err sugar?
    - Powers that are hereditary/similar to others? Great for teaching, probably the best type of power for these kinds of relationships.

    These are the five big positives that came to mind when I read through this thread. Usually I'm one of the cynical ones but I don't really have anything negative to say about this. This system sounds a lot like the one that was in place on the Star Wars site I used to write on, which is kind of nostalgic.

    I for one will definitely make use of the system if it does come about. It sounds like a lot of fun. :)


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    [Poll] Oracles & Anomalies Medeia123


      Current date/time is 17th May 2022, 1:51 am