This is getting ridiculous now

I have to bring this matter up as it is just a really ridiculous rule. The magic creation system requires members to create three strengths and weaknesses for the magic and every single spell underneath it and this is the most foolish thing ever. I'm not talking about how we have to make strengths and weaknesses for the over all magic, as that actually makes a lot of sense in the grand scheme of things, yet forcing members to create at least three strengths and weaknesses for every single spell means we end up creating silly pseudo weaknesses. From my experience individual spells don't have enough stock to create three strengths and weaknesses, sure they have enough to create maybe one each but the rest tend to be pseudo weaknesses and strengths which really don't fly.

You know, I'm not sure if the admins will actually say yes to this...but I do at the very least.


I do find it quite weird to have to come up with three strengths and weaknesses for my spells. Most of the time, the strengths are obvious within the spell description, and I have to weasel my way through very stupid weaknesses. Doing that for every spell does get quite annoying, especially while I'm filling out what's going to be my future magic when I improve it. So far, I have everything BUT strengths and weaknesses. Getting strengths isn't that hard, but in order to find a weakness, I have to purposely nerf the spell in a really stupid way.

And I agree with the part on the magic. Spells shouldn't be so different that they all have different weaknesses. The magic itself should share the same weaknesses since it should generally be the same thing.

I might be a small exception because I use Take Over, and my forms have different uses, but the spells are just different levels of the same type of power.

What I did was I listed a longer list of general strengths and weaknesses during the magic description, but gave my spells like one or two strengths/weaknesses. You could do it that way if you'd find it'd be easier, or makes more sense.

That is a possible solution Duchess but I am of the mind to agree with Decayuss... however I only really made this thread to bring it up with staff and the like so..yeah

I am going to have to say NOPE to this biz. Magic creation is the one thing on this site I absolutely unfailingly love. The three strengths and four weaknesses are one of the best facets of magic creation.

As in the words of Zenshin
"I created a spell that turns everything around me into chocolate. Dear god I can get anything approved on this site with the right weaknesses."

Point is strengths and weaknesses are not limits they are your ticket to the best magic ever. Appropriate usage of these things are what sets apart the strength of two people of the same rank.

However it should be noted that you are able to get away with restating the same weaknesses throughout all yours spells if it is a good one.

Or do what Kaseki does


EX: Muffin Make
Strengths:
- Makes Food
- Can be eaten to recover Ranked based HP
- Recovers 5% per muffin
Weaknesses:
- You must eat the whole muffin to get all the possible HP
- Unappealing to people who dislike muffins
- But be able to eat the muffin to get the effacts
- Muffin can only be summoned in hand.

And there... Muffin make.

Do you see any REAL issue with it? It's actually a great system if you know how to write.

I want to thank Kira for quoting me. It's a big stroke to my ego.

Now that the stroking is done, I want to say I agree to this completely. It's something that I brought up maybe once and forgot about it because the dice system was even more stupid.

But the need for three weaknesses and three strengths is a really silly rule. It leads to fluff and very little thinking when putting weaknesses. I propose that we leave it to the mod's discretion if the strengths and weaknesses balance each other out.

"I created a spell that turns everything around me into chocolate. Dear god I can get anything approved on this site with the right weaknesses." - Right =/= Enough

For the record magic creation and I go way back. I love it to death. But please, arbitrary numbers are just that.

While I'm aware we are allowed to get away with restating the same strength/weakness over and over again, there is the problem, what if you can only think of one strength or weakness? I will admit there is an element of writing ability, but not every weakness I make up for my spells are true weaknesses.

Look at Kaseki's example, those weaknesses barely have any hindrance on the magic. They aren't downsides to the spell, those ones are just chores or annoyances with the spell. I'm not suggesting we utterly remove the strength and weakness system, just limit it to providing them for the over all magic. And I concur with Zenshin, it does indeed lead to little thinking and creating little more than "fluff" weaknesses.

In terms of the strengths and weaknesses I tend to allow, if the spell is suitable, to get away with two strengths and three weaknesses.

What I find stupid is having to have weaknesses for the magic itself and each spell. If I just had to think up ones for the spells it would make things better. As often a few spells will break the weaknesses of the magic in general.

Exactly, that is the point I'm trying to make. Apologies if I'm not making it clear.

Speed Demon Zack wrote:In terms of the strengths and weaknesses I tend to allow, if the spell is suitable, to get away with two strengths and three weaknesses.

What I find stupid is having to have weaknesses for the magic itself and each spell. If I just had to think up ones for the spells it would make things better. As often a few spells will break the weaknesses of the magic in general.

^Banned from grading magic apps until he can get into the uniform of the rules.

Jk jk

anyway. I see you're point. Sometimes members get away with so many strengths and weaknesses if the spell is too generalized I express that they need to specify more strengths and weaknesses.

Mind you that's it if I get to an app before it's snatched from under my nose.

Well I appreciate your support ^^; Not really sure what else to say in response to that Kyell so thanks? XD

The rule isn't stupid just because it is arbitrary. The reason for the rule is so people learn to auto-balance their magic. I have seen enough magic apps in which weaknesses weren't even included. Reiterating them in EVERY spell ensures that every player is self-aware that he isn't god or doesn't have any blind spots.

Also, are you forgetting that everyone is able to argue against such guidelines sensibly? If you say "Hey, I know I don't fulfill the quote of 4 weaknesses towards my 3 strengths, but my spell is balanced because I do have that weakness [x]..."

It's a guideline which you are able to make your case against IN your magic. But it shouldn't get changed for the general public because a lot of new rp'ers who have little idea about balance might not really understand that magic needs weaknesses.

I agree that the numbers of 3 and 4 are arbitrary, but they just got randomly picked because they seemed the most sensible. So I'd say, just deal with the guideline and make your own case against it if you can balance magics without fulfilling quotas. I am VERY positive as a member of the staff that almost all mods and admins will accept you arguing your magic towards the guidelines.

EDIT: Seems like Kyll took the approach before me in fewer words =w= It's dealt with so horray \o/

Question then: If I balance my spells in its actual description can I then get away with nothing in the strengths and weaknesses section and in fact then remove said section

Well that seems fair enough. To me, anyways. Then again I think people would want a tl;dr section for strs and weaknesses

Another thing that also comes up is that we repeat the same weakness over and over. If we put at magic weakness that our magic is weak to a certain element, we tend to write that weakness over and over on the very same spells we make to act as filler. What should matter is the quality of strength and weaknesses match.

If you have all the strengths and weaknesses in your description, why not just seperate them into a different section and bulletpoint them? Like... say, have a strengths and weaknesses section? That would seem easier to review and read.

EDIT: Repeating yourself is not necessary. A tidy spell application with description, strengths and weaknesses IS necessary for a simpler review. If people would just structure description after description however they wanted, reviewing magic apps would become increasingly more painful.