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    Training Experience

    Poll

    Shouldn't training be a valid way to get experience?

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    Training Experience I_vote_lcap90%Training Experience I_vote_rcap [90%] 
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    Total Votes: 29
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    Post by Guest 13th May 2016, 9:39 am

    So I have noticed that the only way to progress is to do things labeled out for others right now. And I noticed there is only one training 'job' that basically has the requirements to make other members say 'Screw that I am just going to go deliver a letter to get stronger than train'.

    So, in heed of being ignored by the admins I am posting this out there for everyone else to see.

    Training topics should be a thing with word requirements and post counts like jobs that specifically train that scales with user ranks. With the only real drawback being no jewel reward for doing so.
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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Eris 13th May 2016, 9:48 am

    I'd rather see a flat system of experience gained compared to Post and/or Word counts,  given a multiplier based on rank,  and a staff member who reviews/reads the training can apply their own multiplier for quality and how well they think the training was / how entertaining it was to read.


    So if you trained for ten 500 word posts it'd be worth something as-is,  or you could continue to push it to 80 300 word posts if you wish.

    So you never feel "Locked in" to a topic and can end them when you wish it.  You aren't driven by necessity to create filler content or abandon a waning topic and waste all effort and time put into it.



    I would love to see more training allowed for other things.   Almost anything that has a jewel cost would benefit from having an optional Training cost.   Spells,  for example,  could be Trained rather than Bought,  as an option.   Same with Secondary magic or the Guild Spells,  and Exams,  which could be bought instead of trained.


    I'd like to see we increase the number of spells allowed by at least half-again the number of slots we are allowed to purchase.  But to get those extra spell slots they need to be trained,  or purchased with jewels.   This would give existing players the opportunity to train new spells if they've already bought their existing allowance, letting them in on the potential fun.


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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Haru-senpai 13th May 2016, 10:18 am

    YES, YES, 100x yes.

    Training Thread of 20 posts or more - x amount of XP

    Ect. Ect. Full Heero support on this. Make it happen.


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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Mura Kensho 13th May 2016, 11:41 am

    That sounds interesting o.e I'm up for it.


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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 13th May 2016, 3:21 pm

    Eris wrote:I'd rather see a flat system of experience gained compared to Post and/or Word counts,  given a multiplier based on rank,  and a staff member who reviews/reads the training can apply their own multiplier for quality and how well they think the training was / how entertaining it was to read. No immediate opinion... but I'm leaning towards "agree" just not entirely there.


    So if you trained for ten 500 word posts it'd be worth something as-is,  or you could continue to push it to 80 300 word posts if you wish.

    So you never feel "Locked in" to a topic and can end them when you wish it.  You aren't driven by necessity to create filler content or abandon a waning topic and waste all effort and time put into it.



    I would love to see more training allowed for other things.   Almost anything that has a jewel cost would benefit from having an optional Training cost.   Spells,  for example,  could be Trained rather than Bought,  as an option.   Same with Secondary magic or the Guild Spells,  and Exams,  which could be bought instead of trained.  Agree, though guild spells already require a training thread for aces to learn them (just no one seems to know that despite it being written)


    I'd like to see we increase the number of spells allowed by at least half-again the number of slots we are allowed to purchase.  But to get those extra spell slots they need to be trained,  or purchased with jewels.   This would give existing players the opportunity to train new spells if they've already bought their existing allowance, letting them in on the potential fun. I half agree... I'd like to keep the max amount of slots we can buy as it is. BUT I'd also like to see a set of spell slots added in both primary and secondary that we have to train for. For Secondary it would just be 1 spell of each rank, but for primary it could be 2 D/C/B and 1 A/S rank spell slot. An H Rank slot would be cool to see as well, which would require like a 30k word thread (100Y Job WC). I don't like how everything is dependent on Jewel, CC, or Jobs... it'd be nice/refreshing to be obligated to train things and actually go through effort to make your character better. Sure it'd be a pain in the butt to do threads for that, but it'd also be a bit more rewarding in the end.
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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Eris 13th May 2016, 3:29 pm

    Niyol wrote:Agree, though guild spells already require a training thread for aces to learn them (just no one seems to know that despite it being written)
    That's why that section was advocating they could be bought instead of purely trained, as it is a very over the top training requirement, and doesn't even account for H-rank aces / GM's who'd be able to learn it more easily. Guild Spells are just H-rank spells after all, which it says I think in that same topic where the guild spell requirements were given, just more complicated with larger areas of influence.

    However, I take that back. Allowing guilds to just directly buy their Ace's guild spells and skipping the training would just make it more prohibitive for underdog guilds, leaving all the power in Sabertooth, Fairy Tail, and Black Rose, the better funded guilds.


    I half agree... I'd like to keep the max amount of slots we can buy as it is. BUT I'd also like to see a set of spell slots added in both primary and secondary that we have to train for. For Secondary it would just be 1 spell of each rank, but for primary it could be 2 D/C/B and 1 A/S rank spell slot. An H Rank slot would be cool to see as well, which would require like a 30k word thread (100Y Job WC). I don't like how everything is dependent on Jewel, CC, or Jobs... it'd be nice/refreshing to be obligated to train things and actually go through effort to make your character better. Sure it'd be a pain in the butt to do threads for that, but it'd also be a bit more rewarding in the end.

    I nearly suggested just that, which is mostly the same as I did, just minus the jewels. But yeah.



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    Post by Ninetails Derpfox 13th May 2016, 3:41 pm

    Siren wrote: However,  I take that back.    Allowing guilds to just directly buy their Ace's guild spells and skipping the training would just make it more prohibitive for underdog guilds,  leaving all the power in Sabertooth, Fairy Tail, and Black Rose,  the better funded guilds. And Lamia Scale. Amazingly LS has as much jewel (a bit more but not significantly so) as BR.


    More importantly, the idea of a training thread.

    How many words per 1 EXP would you say is about right? Additionally, what are you thinking for a rank multiplier?

    I've tried thinking of one, but the main issue I keep hitting is WC for jobs... If training requires less words than jobs then there's not a lot of point in doing jobs aside from getting jewel.
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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Eris 13th May 2016, 4:37 pm

    Niyol wrote:
    How many words per 1 EXP would you say is about right? Additionally, what are you thinking for a rank multiplier?

    I've tried thinking of one, but the main issue I keep hitting is WC for jobs... If training requires less words than jobs then there's not a lot of point in doing jobs aside from getting jewel.



    1xp per 10 words.

    1,000 words = 10xp
    10,000 words = 100xp.
    15,000 words = 150xp.
    100,000 words = 1,000xp.
    50,000 words = 500xp.

    That would be enough for a D-rank to rank from D to C in 1 topic, the equivalent of 10 D-rank jobs.

    Most D-rank jobs have single 500 word post requirements,  or 6 to 15 100 or 150 word posts.

    D-rank jobs give 25xp.

    On average that makes doing a training topic to rank from D to C more difficult, having a higher requirement for the same XP (An average of somewhere between 500 and 1,500 words per 25,  so likely over twice the word to XP balance).


    As for C-rank training...

    C to B rank is considerably more difficult it would seem,  with a very large jump in required XP.  C-rank jobs are only twice the XP of D-rank,  while B-rank is eight times the XP to obtain than C-rank.  

    Giving it a multiplier of x2 would make 1,000 words worth almost as much as a D-rank job at 20xp per 1,000.

    So a 60,000 word training would be enough to get from C to B.


    Just going by the Typical Job Requirements topic for C-rank jobs,  it's at least 2,250 words per topic while you'd only need 24 C-rank jobs to rank up,  adding to 54,000 total words,  putting the training topic about right on the money for equal effort.   Doing the training topic instead of jobs would mean you'd be unable to gain jewels or other rewards.  


    At B-rank you get a jump to 250XP per job,  but 7,500xp required for A-rank,  meaning 30 B-rank jobs.  B-rank jobs themselves however require at least 25 posts,  with 300 words.  For 7,500 words per job (coincidence! I THINK NOT! *tinfoil hat*).   So 7,500 words = 250xp,   But you need 30.  So about-  HOLY SPUTNIK,  225,000 words required for B to A-rank.


    Ahem.  Anyway, so x3 for B-rank would put it at 30xp per 1,000 words,  and 225,000 words would equal 6,750 xp making it less efficient than doing jobs...

    At this point however,  most jobs would likely be done with team members,  using Lacrima milks,  team bonuses,  guild bonuses,  mentor bonuses,  and dividing the effort between others as well, even further making jobs vastly easier than training.

    As a result,  a training topic could do the same.  Training with 1 other person could increase the multiplier for 1 person by +1, but the other does not benefit.   Two others,  +2.  Still no benefits to them however.  

    Or they could train together, both getting the xp but neither getting a bonus multiplier,  unless someone else joins.  Someone of a higher rank could take an active role in helping train the others to offer a +1 multiplier per rank they exceed the trainee.   An H-rank helping the B-rank train would confer a +3,  for a total of x5.   Increasing it to 50xp per 1,000 words,  allowing B to A in 150,00 words.    If you allow Lacrima Milk for Training topics,  that'd be 75,000 words (50xp per 1,000 becoming 100xp per 1,000).


    Seems reasonable.


    Might want to double check my math though.

    The only real advantage would be that you could do them a lot more casually and make one here and there in smaller packages and end them when you feel that it's concluded naturally IC.

    Conclusion:
    1xp per 10 words:
    1,000 words = 10xp
    D-rank: -
    C-rank: x2 - 20
    B-rank: x3 - 30
    A-rank: x4 - 40
    S-rank: x5 - 50

    Allow Lacrima Milk.
    Additional players can increase the multiplier for another trainee.
    Higher ranked players can take an active role in training a lower rank for +1 multiplier per difference.

    Ect.

    I stopped doing math at B-rank, so A and S are questionable (Though in a more effort way, not a "Wow, too easy" way).


    Just the bare bones / somewhere to start tweaking.


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    Post by Guest 13th May 2016, 5:10 pm

    I'd think that training topics would generate more experience per word than mentioned. I'd say every 500 words (solo) is worth a job one rank lower save D ranks who will just have it as a regular jobs worth of experience.
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    Post by That Adopted Kid 13th May 2016, 5:15 pm

    uh 1 XP per 10 words is 10 XP per 100 words, not per 1000, math wise.


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    Post by Eris 13th May 2016, 5:47 pm

    That Adopted Kid wrote:uh 1 XP per 10 words is 10 XP per 100 words, not per 1000, math wise.

    Right *coughs*... I was working off 1,000 to 10 the whole time however, disregarding that oversight/typo.


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    Post by Aemon Trahaearn 13th May 2016, 9:16 pm

    I can't contribute any sort of ideas for how it will work but heck yes I fully support this idea.


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    Post by Fair 13th May 2016, 10:28 pm

    I really like this idea. Full support from me!


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    Post by Thelonious 13th May 2016, 10:32 pm

    I'm in total support of this! Right now it feels as though the only way to get anything done is through jobs... what I'm kind of thinking is that in lieu of jewels for training threads, maybe perhaps we could get slightly more xp?


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    Post by El J. Dawnson 14th May 2016, 4:38 am

    I couldn't agree more. In my opinon every IC action here that makes a character grow should award experience. But I can't quite come up with a way on how that would work. So I fully support the idea of this thread instead.


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    Post by Shard 14th May 2016, 11:59 am

    I did try to raise this at one point. Or something very similar.

    Well, the main thing was giving an option to earn things other than jewels. So if it makes sense to do a thread to gain something do it.


    Want a new weapon? Go mine the ore in a thread and make it yourself or get an NPC to make it. Or even just go and find some legendary hidden weapon. Afterall, they are called 'legendary' and 'artefact' class weapons.

    Want a new spell? Train to gain it.

    Want to get stronger? Train to do so.


    I honestly don't like the fact that the only way of gaining anything is jobs and PVP. Its really irritating and drains a ton of muse.

    And if I see the excused 'its too much work for staff' then the answer is get more staff. Have some staff specifically focused on these sorts of threads.



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    Post by Thelonious 14th May 2016, 12:34 pm

    I like that idea. If you want a new weapon or armor or a pet or something you should have the choice to quest for it and gain xp if you don't want to buy it or don't have enough jewels.


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    Post by Casey Nightwind 15th May 2016, 1:53 pm

    I agree with this one hundred and one percent.


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    Post by Mark Baxter 15th May 2016, 8:42 pm

    1000% support from me.


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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by ivyleaf33 15th May 2016, 10:16 pm

    Yus please, full support~


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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Rosetta Crawford 15th May 2016, 11:59 pm

    Another thing i'd like to add here is that we make it so PVP between members of the same guild rewards exp. It makes no sense otherwise. It makes 'sparring' pointless.


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    Thelonious
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    Post by Thelonious 16th May 2016, 8:53 am

    PvP between guild mates seems like a training thread rather than PvP between different guilds... at least it does to me :3 but I agree with Zack if there's no incentive to PvP people most likely won't do it


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford 16th May 2016, 9:14 am

    Aye, but PVP between guild mates offers no exp or incentives. So we apparently can only gain experience from fighting people of other guilds...for some reason


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    Post by Thelonious 16th May 2016, 9:46 am

    yeah... that don't make much sense...


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    Training Experience Empty Re: Training Experience

    Post by Haru-senpai 16th May 2016, 10:33 am

    It's for anti-cheating Zack. I designed the system so there would be no if any holes. Guildmates could easily forfeit or cheat for one another and would do so much more willingly than someone of another Guild.

    As a few people have said, it wouldn't feel like PVP if you were squaring off against another guild member. That should be obvious. But oh well.

    The topic of this thread is XP for training threads. Not PVP. Jesus christ. That being said, still 100% supportive of training threads giving XP.


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