The only stat system that matters

I am very against the inclusion of a stat system,   if this site included a stat system I would likely end up leaving sooner or later to go back to playing online d20 games such as Pathfinder or D&D for roleplaying instead.    No "stat system" will ever be as refined and time-tested,   not to mention very good.


There is,  however,   one "stat" "system" that could be in place and would be the only one that actually matters for this forum;   HP,  MP,  And Damage.

Restraining ones self to just these three properties would keep the forum free and give the needed regulation where it is needed and nowhere else leaving you free to roleplay as you want to roleplay but given order when it counts.


DAMAGE should be a calculated value that is a variable on a given rank,   No more of this BS "S-rank damage" or "D-rank damage".       D-rank damage gets replaced with 1-20 damage.   C-rank damage gets replaced with 10-40 damage.   B-rank becomes 20-80 damage.   A-rank becomes 40-160 damage.  S-rank becomes 80-320 damage.   H-rank becomes 160-620 damage.

The number listed on the left is a "Low damage" spell while the right is a "High Damage" spell,  while a middleground would be the average damages. 

HP Itself would be somewhere in the realm of five times the given damage counts as HP per rank,   so on average a mage should at least be able to resist 3 same-rank spells or at most around 8.    The minimum being for a mage that relies more on spellpower,   so they have less health as they are more frail but in turn could tap into higher damage output or higher damage resistance to their spells.   The maximum being for a mage that boasts high defense and vitality,  such as slayers though the maximum would not be a slayer thing,   slayers would just be high.    Maximum HP mages would be a Metal or Earth slayer,  or any other mage who relies on a strong sturdy magic that influences their body.     


And with that you already have a usable foundation from which to work with.  How much damage did you take from that spell you just got hit with?  It says right there in their app "Deals 45 damage"  or "Deals 5 damage per post" or "Deals 5 damage per second the enemy remains in the burning area".  


This provides clear and easy to understand information anyone can easily adapt.    Your slayer deals double damage to a dragon?  Well now you know what that actually means.   50 becomes 100.   130 becomes 260.   What did it hit for?  Well the dragon had 1,500 HP so keep trying.    This also cures the ridiculous method of measuring boss powers.   "Takes 30 hits of A-rank damage!!!"     How much damage do you do with that boost?   Well it's 25% boost,  so your 100 just became a 125.   Or you 100 became a 75 because of that 25% resistance.



This gives everyone what they want,   few people actually WANT a stat system.  I don't know why or when the stat system craze influencing staff agendas started.     THIS gives ORDER while retaining FREEDOM through ease of rules,  and variability in having a lot of room to work with to design unique and varied spells.

Nothing else,  no arbitrary strength,  power, or intelligence stats,   no lists of available skills.    Just leave it at HP,  MP,  and Damage.  That's all that is needed.

I kinda agree with Siren o.o

Things would be twice the clear if we do that .-.

You'll get to know how many HP to lower if you get hit by a Y (y-- Depends on rank spell) Ranked Spell. And also we'd know how many HP an enemy has and we could calculate the correct amount and rank of the spells we'll need in order to kill it.

And the confusions in jobs would end, certainly. There would be no more ''Goes down on 2 straight hits''. (There's actually a job that says that .-.). Two hits of what rank? Do Weapon strikes count too? Does damage dealt by pets count? And what if our spells hits first one person than the others with a secondary wave? Does it count as a direct hit.

I am so supporting this idea. It would be great.

Or we could implement a pathfinder stat system

Serapheal wrote:I am very against the inclusion of a stat system,   if this site included a stat system I would likely end up leaving sooner or later to go back to playing online d20 games such as Pathfinder or D&D for roleplaying instead.    No "stat system" will ever be as refined and time-tested,   not to mention very good.


There is,  however,   one "stat" "system" that could be in place and would be the only one that actually matters for this forum;   HP,  MP,  And Damage.

Restraining ones self to just these three properties would keep the forum free and give the needed regulation where it is needed and nowhere else leaving you free to roleplay as you want to roleplay but given order when it counts.


DAMAGE should be a calculated value that is a variable on a given rank,   No more of this BS "S-rank damage" or "D-rank damage".       D-rank damage gets replaced with 1-20 damage.   C-rank damage gets replaced with 10-40 damage.   B-rank becomes 20-80 damage.   A-rank becomes 40-160 damage.  S-rank becomes 80-320 damage.   H-rank becomes 160-620 damage.

The number listed on the left is a "Low damage" spell while the right is a "High Damage" spell,  while a middleground would be the average damages. 

HP Itself would be somewhere in the realm of five times the given damage counts as HP per rank,   so on average a mage should at least be able to resist 3 same-rank spells or at most around 8.    The minimum being for a mage that relies more on spellpower,   so they have less health as they are more frail but in turn could tap into higher damage output or higher damage resistance to their spells.   The maximum being for a mage that boasts high defense and vitality,  such as slayers though the maximum would not be a slayer thing,   slayers would just be high.    Maximum HP mages would be a Metal or Earth slayer,  or any other mage who relies on a strong sturdy magic that influences their body.     


And with that you already have a usable foundation from which to work with.  How much damage did you take from that spell you just got hit with?  It says right there in their app "Deals 45 damage"  or "Deals 5 damage per post" or "Deals 5 damage per second the enemy remains in the burning area".  


This provides clear and easy to understand information anyone can easily adapt.    Your slayer deals double damage to a dragon?  Well now you know what that actually means.   50 becomes 100.   130 becomes 260.   What did it hit for?  Well the dragon had 1,500 HP so keep trying.    This also cures the ridiculous method of measuring boss powers.   "Takes 30 hits of A-rank damage!!!"     How much damage do you do with that boost?   Well it's 25% boost,  so your 100 just became a 125.   Or you 100 became a 75 because of that 25% resistance.



This gives everyone what they want,   few people actually WANT a stat system.  I don't know why or when the stat system craze influencing staff agendas started.     THIS gives ORDER while retaining FREEDOM through ease of rules,  and variability in having a lot of room to work with to design unique and varied spells.

Nothing else,  no arbitrary strength,  power, or intelligence stats,   no lists of available skills.    Just leave it at HP,  MP,  and Damage.  That's all that is needed.

^This. All of it. Perfectly thought out, it works perfectly, and it actually removes all of the stupid from missions and combat. That's right. All of the stupid. Gone.

I disagree. I dont think there's any stupid in the missions and combat. Only in PvP

I actually agree with Siren too, we don't need a MMO or w/e style stat system, this one she tought out is very simple and effective!

To accommodate the change I would recommend players simply state their requested values for damage per spell and staff themselves edit the values in without ever even taking the app down,  remaining approved.  The staff then lowers the value if they feel it is too high to the maximum they determine appropriate for the spell up to the member's requested damage value,   and in doing so they auto-reapprove it seamlessly and taking no more effort than it would to take down the app and go through the whole approval process again.    This can also be done easily over the course of a few days here and there different staffers handling different apps AS requested of them.   

If a member disagrees with what the staff entered,  thinking it too low,  then they can resolve it in a civil manner through PMs to discuss it or only then have the app become an actual WIP app for a more in-depth transition.

I would volunteer to be given moderator status to handle these requests personally if need be,  and not simply give out hollow words suggesting staff do things when I myself wouldn't have anything to do with that work.   So no "Oh that's easy for you to say,  lil non-staffer" comments would hardly be appropriate.

The issue with your system Siren is one thing and one thing only. It doesn't take physical attacks into account at all. Yes this is a magic based site, but if you don't take physical abilities into account as well as magic then the stat system is pointless. Physical speed to see how capable they are of 'dodging' would make sense. Physical strength to see how much they can lift, how strong their blows are. It would also allow for things like 'gives a 10% boost in speed' to make sense.

I do however like the simplicity of this method. I think it needs to be thought through to encorporate physical. I know a lot of work has been put into an actual system. It will be simple and effective I think rather than overly complex as the original suggested stat systems have been.

Also there will be no need to memorize the stats as it will have a widget to do it

I dont know. I feel like you should A. Give the not-even-developed stat system a chnce

Or B. Stop making things that arent problems seem like problems

Speed Demon Zack wrote:The issue with your system Siren is one thing and one thing only. It doesn't take physical attacks into account at all. Yes this is a magic based site, but if you don't take physical abilities into account as well as magic then the stat system is pointless. Physical speed to see how capable they are of 'dodging' would make sense. Physical strength to see how much they can lift, how strong their blows are. It would also allow for things like 'gives a 10% boost in speed' to make sense.

I do however like the simplicity of this method. I think it needs to be thought through to encorporate physical. I know a lot of work has been put into an actual system. It will be simple and effective I think rather than overly complex as the original suggested stat systems have been.

Also there will be no need to memorize the stats as it will have a widget to do it

Yes it does -.-   Melee damage is situated within the same brackets as spell damage,   An H-rank dealing in the hundreds while a D-rank does 1-20.    Factoring weapons would just either allow you to do that damage,  change the method in which that damage is delivered,  or apply modifiers to deal added or less effectiveness.     People already deal flat out "H-rank damage" with their fists,  it has repeatedly been stated that people deal user-ranked melee damage.    NOW,  with my suggestion,   you would have variability within that rank by applying an actual value to it,   two players of the same rank having the same rank but not he same values because one is actually better at using their blade while the other is better at casting spells,   so one has a higher value within that rank.  

That is the biggest benefit of this method,   variability.   There is little variability as it is.   Things such as "double C-rank damage" or so on are seen commonly,  because there is little room to work with leading to half-ranks,   such as I have used before and seen in Kira's apps with the C+ ranks or so on amounting to "C and D-rank damage" or such.


This isn't meant to dictate what you can or cannot do with your physical ability.  What you want your character to do or not do is up to you,  the player,  not some forced and limiting stat system.    All my suggestion does is give things value,   and does not restrict player ability to play freely at all.     No dodging mechanics,  no "You can lift exactly this much".  



"Also there will be no need to memorize the stats as it will have a widget to do it"
If it requires a widget to handle it,  then it's too much -.-;
I, at the very least,  am not here to be bogged down by statistics.   I LEFT statistics for this roleplaying,   I designed stats and numbers and classes and races and the whole shebang for games such as Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons for a couple years.   I'd rather go back to that than deal stat systems draped over a free RP...   


But none of this even matters.  Zenshin's negativity and the other less than cooperative comments have already doomed this suggestion.  Admins barely read or seem to give any consideration to suggestions anyway,  even if handfuls of members say nothing but good will.   This hardly has a chance anymore anyway,  if it ever had.   But whatever,  there you go.   We can just live with what ever clunky enforced "Stat system" we get stuck with,  or end up moving on to a site that is more free or moving on somewhere else to play actual d20 rules,  which are the only stat systems that work sensibly that works more as a guide rather than a barrier.

I just wanted to make the suggestion before it was too late.

I've got a limited amount of time on my phone; Chaotic here.

I'm agreeing with Zenshin on this one.

I can't go further into depth as of yet, since, as I said, I have little time, but I will address something you've said here, Siren.

The rules are getting revamped.  We're adding new things and changing some old things, making things clearer, and just making it look good.  The stat system is just one.  However, some other suggestions that have been suggested in the past ARE actually a part of the new additions.

I don't think I should specify quite yet, but that is the case.

We read suggestions.  Don't go spreading about that we do not, because what you've said about that is completely incorrect.

Dont shoot me and a couple of people because you are unnecessarily offended by opinions. I gave you a suggestion, nothing negative about it. And suggestions *do* get recognized, which is why we no longer have a stat system, and why we have a word counter widget. Please don't refer to yourself as the whole of the site when you aren't and wait for a stat system to even begin to develop before whining about how clunky it is.

Blitz wrote:I've got a limited amount of time on my phone; Chaotic here.

I'm agreeing with Zenshin on this one.

I can't go further into depth as of yet, since, as I said, I have little time, but I will address something you've said here, Siren.

The rules are getting revamped.  We're adding new things and changing some old things, making things clearer, and just making it look good.  The stat system is just one.  However, some other suggestions that have been suggested in the past ARE actually a part of the new additions.

I don't think I should specify quite yet, but that is the case.

We read suggestions.  Don't go spreading about that we do not, because what you've said about that is completely incorrect.

You can't say it's completely incorrect when for all appearances it is correct.   Staff does everything behind closed doors and I've only seen a suggestion get implemented once that I could point out,   while most suggestions either get ignored or shut down unreasonably without discussion.    So forgive me if I make observations,  it's hardly my fault staff does everything in secret. 

Zenshin wrote:Dont shoot me and a couple of people because you are unnecessarily offended by opinions. I gave you a suggestion, nothing negative about it. And suggestions *do* get recognized, which is why we no longer have a stat system, and why we have a word counter widget. Please don't refer to yourself as the whole of the site when you aren't and wait for a stat system to even begin to develop before whining about how clunky it is.

I didn't shoot anyone,  though you obviously took it that way.   The stat system that was almost implement took nearly everyone being vocal about how they did not like it or how they thought it should be,  and even then it was a reluctant surrender to everyone's opinion.    And I have never once referred to myself as the whole site -.-   And I am not whining.   I am being productive,  whining would be doing nothing but bitching about in the chatbox or making baseless opinions with no suggestions on how to amend them,  or doing nothing but pointing out flaws in something someone else is attempting to amend.  



I would suggest this topic be locked, archived, or outright deleted,  since apparently my suggestions and opinions mean little as I cannot recall one instance where an admin appeared to value anything I've had to say.  Neither is there any point to this anyway since apparently the need to introduce a stat system once again is already set in place.



I will also reluctantly apologize,   as I feel like I have a literal stick up my ass piled over mounds of offline issues and as a result may be more irritable and self-hating/harming than usual. 
Dying computer,  near worthless mouse,  health concerns and pain in eight parts of my body with no money for doctors,  lack of income,  and the idea of moving to somewhere we do not even know yet while planning / saving for a way to attend an aunts marriage soon.   Just seriously,  fml.   It could always be worse,  but it's been getting worse for a week now with no bottom in sight yet.

In all honesty until very recently the staff themselves did not know what was going on. We were just told 'stuff is happening'. Now Siren, I know you might not believe this but suggestions ARE taken into account. Yes we comment on a lot of stuff here and shoot down things that would either break the site or are just plain silly. However, we do take into account suggestions. We have a very large backlog of  things to implement.


Stats have been brought up a ridiculous amount of times now both for and against. We have decided that such a system needs to be implemented in some fashion, in particular for certain other things that are coming in like the dungeon system.

Other suggestions are on the backlog as I said. Complaining about how long they take to implement or saying 'Oh my suggestions are never taken into account so why bother' just makes those developing these changes less motivated and will simply make them take longer. If you do wish to make a suggestion make it constructive.

Also, before you try to shoot down an idea...at least wait until you've seen it. Just to be fair.

Also don't say we shot the idea down without even considering it. All I said was that it would probably need refining before it could be implemented as it didn't take into account some things. The new system should, by my very limited understanding (as i haven't seen it at all), allow for many varieties of build and it shouldn't limit the rp. It will merely make it slightly more structured.

Siren wrote:
I didn't shoot anyone,  though you obviously took it that way.   The stat system that was almost implement took nearly everyone being vocal about how they did not like it or how they thought it should be,  and even then it was a reluctant surrender to everyone's opinion.    And I have never once referred to myself as the whole site -.-   And I am not whining.   I am being productive,  whining would be doing nothing but bitching about in the chatbox or making baseless opinions with no suggestions on how to amend them,  or doing nothing but pointing out flaws in something someone else is attempting to amend.  



I would suggest this topic be locked, archived, or outright deleted,  since apparently my suggestions and opinions mean little as I cannot recall one instance where an admin appeared to value anything I've had to say.  Neither is there any point to this anyway since apparently the need to introduce a stat system once again is already set in place.



I will also reluctantly apologize,   as I feel like I have a literal stick up my ass piled over mounds of offline issues and as a result may be more irritable and self-hating/harming than usual. 
Dying computer,  near worthless mouse,  health concerns and pain in eight parts of my body with no money for doctors,  lack of income,  and the idea of moving to somewhere we do not even know yet while planning / saving for a way to attend an aunts marriage soon.   Just seriously,  fml.   It could always be worse,  but it's been getting worse for a week now with no bottom in sight yet.

You are whining. If you honestly thought your opinion meant nothing, this is whining. You wouldnt post this. That's a paradox. And you did shoot me, and whoever else doesn't agree with you, I didn't take it as such. You just did. "We can just live with what ever clunky enforced "Stat system" we get stuck with,  or end up moving on to a site that is more free or moving on somewhere else to play actual d20 rules,  which are the only stat systems that work sensibly that works more as a guide rather than a barrier." That "we" there is referring to your feelings and projecting it on the whole site. This is probably going to be my last message on the matter because this is honestly frustrating to me. The worst part is that it's my own dam fault for being stubborn and having to prove my dam points.

Zenshin wrote:

Siren wrote:You are whining. If you honestly thought your opinion meant nothing, this is whining. You wouldnt post this. That's a paradox. And you did shoot me, and whoever else doesn't agree with you, I didn't take it as such. You just did. "We can just live with what ever clunky enforced "Stat system" we get stuck with,  or end up moving on to a site that is more free or moving on somewhere else to play actual d20 rules,  which are the only stat systems that work sensibly that works more as a guide rather than a barrier." That "we" there is referring to your feelings and projecting it on the whole site. This is probably going to be my last message on the matter because this is honestly frustrating to me. The worst part is that it's my own dam fault for being stubborn and having to prove my dam points.

The ", or end up" was a grammar slip up and a blend of thoughts.   It's been established that I have such slip ups frequently,  especially in the chatbox,  which often go as far as to even replace whole words with unrelated ones that are only somewhat to the intended word-  I just slipped up right there as well,  leaving the mistake to prove my point however flimsy evidence that is,  "Relevant" needs to be inserted after somewhat-.

Before that is fact,  "We" will live with it,  whether or not you like it or not doesn't change that we all will,  keeping it valid and not me projecting myself on anyone.   I think too little of myself to presume to speak for anyone if I have not actually observed the sentiments I speak about.

I disagree with the part about how stats systems don't work. I've found many to work. Although how everything is set up here it would be stupid to put a stat system and somethig would break.

Everything here though makes sense and prevents the entire system you guys built from being kicked to the ground and pummeled with a fire extinguisher. I support this.

My take on the issues with it presented...

I honestly think that a normal punch should just do half of the user's rank range in damage range (certain weapons could do more or less depending).

A person should be able to sprint like 20xtheir rank's number in mph (20 mph at D-Rank, 40 mph at C-Rank, etc).

Endurance/Stamina is basically HP, but a person could fight all out physically for up to like... 5 posts per rank, if that even matters.

MP system should be fine for MP. Attack speed should just be a static 2 attacks per round modified up or down by one per difference in rank.

Evasion can be governed by logistics, accuracy can be governed by logistics, like a D-Rank who can shoot a 45 mph projectile spell will probably need a better spell if they want to hit a B-Rank moving as fast as they can to avoid it, and stuff like that.

Lifting Capacity should be like... 10x their punch damage range, lowest value being a light load, highest being their limit.

Jump height should be like... 1/10 the damage range in meters/yards (sets of 3 feet or so), minimum is height on a standing long jump, highest is height on a running-start high-jump.

I think that cover's the physical stuff, which I pretty much just calculated based on rank and base physical damage. Note that all values given that seem high, are the exhausting points to move or lift at. Like, a D-Rank mage holding up a 200 lb boulder without a physically inclined magic (which would give them a little more leeway) would probably be pretty freaking exhausted afterwards, but a B-Rank mage wouldn't have too many issues with it, could probably even pull off one-handing it and shooting a spell in the same post.

TL;DR - Read it anyways! Oooooooh!

Knight wrote:My take on the issues with it presented...

I honestly think that a normal punch should just do half of the user's rank range in damage range (certain weapons could do more or less depending).

A person should be able to sprint like 20xtheir rank's number in mph (20 mph at D-Rank, 40 mph at C-Rank, etc).

Endurance/Stamina is basically HP, but a person could fight all out physically for up to like... 5 posts per rank, if that even matters.

MP system should be fine for MP. Attack speed should just be a static 2 attacks per round modified up or down by one per difference in rank.

Evasion can be governed by logistics, accuracy can be governed by logistics, like a D-Rank who can shoot a 45 mph projectile spell will probably need a better spell if they want to hit a B-Rank moving as fast as they can to avoid it, and stuff like that.

Lifting Capacity should be like... 10x their punch damage range, lowest value being a light load, highest being their limit.

Jump height should be like... 1/10 the damage range in meters/yards (sets of 3 feet or so), minimum is height on a standing long jump, highest is height on a running-start high-jump.

I think that cover's the physical stuff, which I pretty much just calculated based on rank and base physical damage. Note that all values given that seem high, are the exhausting points to move or lift at. Like, a D-Rank mage holding up a 200 lb boulder without a physically inclined magic (which would give them a little more leeway) would probably be pretty freaking exhausted afterwards, but a B-Rank mage wouldn't have too many issues with it, could probably even pull off one-handing it and shooting a spell in the same post.

TL;DR - Read it anyways! Oooooooh!

TL;DR

Love the way u hate, Zen maboy! Yeah but seriousface right now, that's about how I'd solve the issue of physical values that are constantly being poked with spells and lineages, while maintaining the system that Siren suggested.

Knight wrote:My take on the issues with it presented...

I honestly think that a normal punch should just do half of the user's rank range in damage range (certain weapons could do more or less depending).

A person should be able to sprint like 20xtheir rank's number in mph (20 mph at D-Rank, 40 mph at C-Rank, etc).

Endurance/Stamina is basically HP, but a person could fight all out physically for up to like... 5 posts per rank, if that even matters.

MP system should be fine for MP. Attack speed should just be a static 2 attacks per round modified up or down by one per difference in rank.

Evasion can be governed by logistics, accuracy can be governed by logistics, like a D-Rank who can shoot a 45 mph projectile spell will probably need a better spell if they want to hit a B-Rank moving as fast as they can to avoid it, and stuff like that.

Lifting Capacity should be like... 10x their punch damage range, lowest value being a light load, highest being their limit.

Jump height should be like... 1/10 the damage range in meters/yards (sets of 3 feet or so), minimum is height on a standing long jump, highest is height on a running-start high-jump.

I think that cover's the physical stuff, which I pretty much just calculated based on rank and base physical damage. Note that all values given that seem high, are the exhausting points to move or lift at. Like, a D-Rank mage holding up a 200 lb boulder without a physically inclined magic (which would give them a little more leeway) would probably be pretty freaking exhausted afterwards, but a B-Rank mage wouldn't have too many issues with it, could probably even pull off one-handing it and shooting a spell in the same post.

TL;DR - Read it anyways! Oooooooh!

I can agree on punch damage being the rank below,   but this system is not intended to govern people's lives such as their stamina or lifting capacity,  or ability to evade.   It merely solves damage and health concerns and gives hundreds of times more room to work with in creating spells and spell effects such as DoT by using better values.

Beyond that it should be free to the imagination,   as this is a roleplay after all.   A storytelling site.  


However,  if a stat system must be implemented beyond what I suggested,  then I would agree that basing it around the values I gave would be sensible enough in the manner you described.
Still...   either way my opinion would be:

Spoiler:

I think a partial "Stat" system,  limited to Life,  Mana,  and Damage,   is all that is necessary.   And honestly needed,  but beyond that?  Refer to the image... ;w;

We don't need a stat system anywhere outside of PVP. If you are going to include a stat system keep it strictly for PVP. If you put a stat system anywhere else it takes away from the joy of the game.

Besides I've yet to ever find an uncomplicated Stat system and i've been doing table top and computer RPs for most of my life. Stat systems are used to keep competition between players fair. If there is no competition then there is no reason for stats beyond what we have. HP, MP, and damage.

I don't want to have to learn a stat system, and if I had to that I would rather leave and find somewhere less confusing. Besides you shouldn't add a new system when there is tons of room for improvement on what's already here.

any stat system I see working here needs to be exclusively physical as the strength of a spell can't be determined by two different things. That would be a mess

Calm down peeps.

Here's a sneak peak into the stat system that we're working on.

https://www.fairytail-rp.com/t7738-sneak-peak-into-the-stat-system#103863