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    Dice and Invasions

    Serapheal
    Serapheal

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    Dice and Invasions Empty Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 19th March 2015, 10:32 am

    I think I'm onto something here. (Sarcasm, for lack of a better word)


    [1:26:27 PM] Kate C. (Siren):There should be a really rare Invasion roll that gives you the option to invite a mage of an opposing faction of a suitable rank (Or combined rank) to the job...
     Then a Super-Rare roll called the Megaboss >;3
    [1:28:08 PM] Kate C. (Siren): Rolling Invasion or Megaboss would be good cause to make use of the Reinforcement rules,  if it ends up too hard.



    Just sayin'.


    No edits would have to be made to existing jobs,  they'd simply be added to the dice rollers and work seamlessly with all existing jobs that require a monster roll.    A Megaboss isn't something worked by the job itself like the other monster dice,  but a separate info topic about Megabosses,   with one or a few different Megabosses per job rank.


    Running into an Invasion or a Megaboss would up the reward for the job itself,  as it obviously does grant the characters more experience to face something like that,  meanwhile there would likely be MC or government issued bounty on the beast or criminals separate from the job itself's reward-giver.


    Last edited by Serapheal on 27th March 2015, 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Rosetta Crawford
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Rosetta Crawford 19th March 2015, 10:59 am

    I actually quite like this concept.

    However, if we roll the 'invasion dice'. Do we HAVE to have someone come in and invade? Same for megaboss


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    Serapheal
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 19th March 2015, 11:26 am

    Speed Demon Zack wrote:I actually quite like this concept.

    However, if we roll the 'invasion dice'. Do we HAVE to have someone come in and invade? Same for megaboss


    I'd think Invasion would be optional,  as you wouldn't always be able to get a dark mage player or light/neutral player to join your job.


    Megaboss,  however, shouldn't be optional and should instead provide an opportunity to make use of the Reinforcement rules.


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    Dice and Invasions XeQjtg0
    Kirahunter
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Kirahunter 19th March 2015, 3:34 pm

    I'm less for invasion dice because I feel invasions should be random and player generated. But Megaboss I am all for. I will offer my services in developing mega-bosses if needed.


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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Mifune 22nd March 2015, 3:05 pm

    Everyone was dead set against invasions solely because they were non-optional for the person being invaded... This would sort of make up for it.

    So have it as an invitation based-system and up the experience on both sides. Increased experience for the person doing the job, for the added difficulty and player interaction, and a set invasion experience for the invader, whether they're successful or not. This makes it more of a plot based experience builder with a PVP aspect, rather than a forced PVP system.

    Invaders have to meet a certain criteria in order to claim exp rewards... Entrance, Hindrance and Exit. meaning they have to RP themselves actually hindering the Job taker in some way... whether it be an actual battle, or sabotage... Then they have to make an escape if they weren't successful in stopping the job taker. Since it's a Dice function, it's not like everyone can take advantage of the exp boosts this provides and it'd be sort of up to the RPers whether to actually make it a PvP thing or just a plot thing.


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    Almyra Bys
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Almyra Bys 22nd March 2015, 7:28 pm

    I feel as though both invasion and megaboss should be optional, you just don't get the exp boost if you don't accept. The reason being would be that megabosses wouldn't make sense in some threads from an RP perspective. For instance, if you are doing the Fourth Musketeer, why would this random megaboss suddenly show up in a noble's manor? Also, for megabosses, would it be a single "Megaboss" die that you get when rolling that makes you choose what boss shows up, or would you land a specific megaboss?


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    Serapheal
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 22nd March 2015, 7:41 pm

    Megabosses at least should -not- be optional and serve as a potential failstate and reason to actually use reinforcements.   The only reason I'd suggest the invasion die be optional is because you might not be able to find someone suitable to invade.   Though in that case the Invasion die could instead be something of a "Reinforcements" for the NPCs,   like say 5 Normal monsters and 2 Strong monsters at once.


    I find it cringe worthy that there is almost no chance of failure as it stands,  without even any cause to bother with reinforcements.    




    There's always a chance that a megaboss could show up,   even if it's unrelated to a job.   In said manor the Megaboss is in complete disregard for the environment and is just on a rampage or something.     But for safeguards,  there would be multiple megabosses you could choose from with staff approval (To avoid just picking one you could curbstomp with your magic).


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    Almyra Bys
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Almyra Bys 22nd March 2015, 7:43 pm

    One instance where it definitely would not work would be in Size Matters. Unless the megaboss is shrunken down for some reason. Besides, people will just cheese their way into beating the megaboss unless it's controlled by someone not doing the job.


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    Serapheal
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 22nd March 2015, 7:47 pm

    Almyra Bys wrote:One instance where it definitely would not work would be in Size Matters. Unless the megaboss is shrunken down for some reason. Besides, people will just cheese their way into beating the megaboss unless it's controlled by someone not doing the job.


    It'd still work just fine in Size Matters.   You'd just be entirely defenseless and HAVE to call reinforcements.   It's silly to pretend the rest of the universe doesn't exist when you're shrunk :P


    Cheesing a megaboss would have to be very obvious unless you're clearly at a much higher rank than the job is intended for,    and would result in job failure o-o  Because that's just not cool o-o  Unless it somehow still made sense and impressed the staff in charge of approving the job.


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    Almyra Bys
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Almyra Bys 22nd March 2015, 7:50 pm

    True. Though for Size Matters you could easily just not fight the megaboss and say it goes on its merry way without you fighting it. It won't notice you because you're the size of a bug. That or have it attack the person who shrunk them, causing her to shrink it. Or the players could grow to normal size to defeat it, then shrink down again. Still, I feel as though people will find a way to cheese them. They already make jobs much easier than they should be. In all honesty though, I think it's a great idea and am looking forward to having my characters' arses kicked.


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    Serapheal
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 22nd March 2015, 7:55 pm

    Almyra Bys wrote:True. Though for Size Matters you could easily just not fight the megaboss and say it goes on its merry way without you fighting it. It won't notice you because you're the size of a bug. That or have it attack the person who shrunk them, causing her to shrink it. Or the players could grow to normal size to defeat it, then shrink down again. Still, I feel as though people will find a way to cheese them. They already make jobs much easier than they should be.


    You'd probably get stepped on or caught in the area of a flame thrower all the same however.  It's not necessarily there for -you-,  it's just -there- and on a rampage.    Think Godzilla,  Kaiju,  alien invasion,  ect/whatevers.   


    It's a rare event,  perhaps one in every thousand rolls would result in an Invasion or Megaboss,  and isn't intended for you to fight alone but to call in reinforcements or experience defeat.   It essentially turns the job into an Mini-Event and a luck of the draw.


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    Almyra Bys
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Almyra Bys 22nd March 2015, 7:58 pm

    I see. It's a really cool idea and I hope they implement it. Perhaps we could have some separate ones for international jobs, even, like different legendary monsters and such for different areas. Bosco would be fairly easy to do that for, considering they fight giant monsters on a daily basis. Perhaps the exp/jewel penalty for calling reinforcements could be removed if a megaboss is rolled as well. That's also probably why people don't call in reinforcements.


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    Serapheal
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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 22nd March 2015, 8:11 pm

    Almyra Bys wrote:I see. It's a really cool idea and I hope they implement it. Perhaps we could have some separate ones for international jobs, even, like different legendary monsters and such for different areas. Bosco would be fairly easy to do that for, considering they fight giant monsters on a daily basis. Perhaps the exp/jewel penalty for calling reinforcements could be removed if a megaboss is rolled as well. That's also probably why people don't call in reinforcements.



    The rules are rather convoluted to be sure,  which doesn't help anything.


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    Kirahunter
    Kirahunter

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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Kirahunter 23rd March 2015, 2:53 pm

    Maybe we can add in as a monster possibility(along with Megaboss) the "Catastrophe" dice. In which something completely beyond the players control goes horribly wrong threatening them with job failure. Now while the player will be allowed to create their own catastrophe it will have to meet two criteria for the job to be approved:
    -The catastrophe must present obvious danger to the fulfillment of the job's objective, failure to deal with the problem will cause job failure
    -Preventing the catastrophe may not help the player complete other objectives

    The first one is obvious but just for an example, "You must sheer the sheep to win! Catastrophe! The stock market crashed!" The catastrophe(while catastrophic) had no impact on the completion of the job so it's a no-go. The other thing is with a catastrophe "oh no we failed to stop the catastrophe but we can still pull this out of the water!" is also a no-go. The catastrophe must cause job failure if not prevented, it can't just make things harder. Because people just cheese "difficult" things. Anyway preventing catastrophes doesn't have to be hard, it just has to be high stakes.

    The second one is a little harder. The gist is catastrophes make things worse not better. It's hard to phrase it right but the idea is if you are at 70% job completion and a catastrophe appears once you prevent the catastrophe(and assuming you do nothing else) the job completion is still at 70%. So like if your job is to kill 10 dragons 5 dragons appearing is not a valid catastrophe because defeating them will forward the completion of your job. However that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to make lemonade of your lemons. If say a meteor starts falling on the town you're defending from invaders, once you've stopped the meteor there is no reason you shouldn't be able to throw the meteor at the invaders. But that's different from having the meteor fall on the invaders instead of the town.

    The goal is similar to megabosses but it just allows jobs to go wrong in ways other then GIANT MONSTER ATTACK! I mean giant monster attack is cool, but not every job failure ever can be caused by giant monster attack. That's just silly.


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    [20:44:53] Kirahunter : also I like the sound of my own voice
    [20:44:59] Kirahunter : so I had to say something

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    Dice and Invasions Empty Re: Dice and Invasions

    Post by Serapheal 23rd March 2015, 3:25 pm

    Kirahunter wrote:Maybe we can add in as a monster possibility(along with Megaboss) the "Catastrophe" dice. In which something completely beyond the players control goes horribly wrong threatening them with job failure. Now while the player will be allowed to create their own catastrophe it will have to meet two criteria for the job to be approved:
    -The catastrophe must present obvious danger to the fulfillment of the job's objective, failure to deal with the problem will cause job failure
    -Preventing the catastrophe may not help the player complete other objectives

    The first one is obvious but just for an example, "You must sheer the sheep to win! Catastrophe! The stock market crashed!"  The catastrophe(while catastrophic) had no impact on the completion of the job so it's a no-go. The other thing is with a catastrophe "oh no we failed to stop the catastrophe but we can still pull this out of the water!" is also a no-go. The catastrophe must cause job failure if not prevented, it can't just make things harder. Because people just cheese "difficult" things. Anyway preventing catastrophes doesn't have to be hard, it just has to be high stakes.

    The second one is a little harder. The gist is catastrophes make things worse not better. It's hard to phrase it right but the idea is if you are at 70% job completion and a catastrophe appears once you prevent the catastrophe(and assuming you do nothing else) the job completion is still at 70%. So like if your job is to kill 10 dragons 5 dragons appearing is not a valid catastrophe because defeating them will forward the completion of your job. However that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to make lemonade of your lemons. If say a meteor starts falling on the town you're defending from invaders, once you've stopped the meteor there is no reason you shouldn't be able to throw the meteor at the invaders. But that's different from having the meteor fall on the invaders instead of the town.

    The goal is similar to megabosses but it just allows jobs to go wrong in ways other then GIANT MONSTER ATTACK! I mean giant monster attack is cool, but not every job failure ever can be caused by giant monster attack. That's just silly.



    10/10.


    (Though they're not allllllll giant monsters).


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