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    Additions to magic rules

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    Shard
     
     

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    Additions to magic rules

    Post by Shard on 8th January 2017, 7:31 am

    Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.
    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.
    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.
    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.


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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Guest on 8th January 2017, 9:43 am

    Statements, questions, concerns, and overall opinion stated in this color.
    Shard wrote:Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.

    I don't understand the point in increasing the 75% to 80%. It makes very little difference at all to increase it to 80% (given that is just an example I presume, but if it's solid. . .). Increasing the AoE to 80% will only crease it by 1HP, meaning a D-rank AoE would deal 16HP at the 75% mark instead of 15HP at the 75% mark. Also, to increase the extensiveness of an AoEs damage wouldn't make sense in the long run because it takes away the point of an AoE dealing less damage the farther it away from the epicenter. You don't see an atomic bomb dealing extreme damage to those outside of its epicenter, or an earthquake dealing damage to those outside of its epicenter. Granted, there are magi on the site who have AoEs that deal 100% over the entire range. To me, it doesn't make sense to change this at all.
    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.

    This is what we call a requip weapon. Requip weapons deal natural armed damage when not using their active. You can have as many bullets as you want that all deal armed melee damage when fired. And if this was to take place, you'd still have the issue of a long duration resulting in a longer cooldown. I doubt anyone would want a spell like this when it comes to events/pvp and they have to have a long cooldown simply because it as a long/"unlimited" duration.
    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.

    To be honest, I believe this technically already exists. You can have spells effect higher-ranking magi as long as the result is minimum since higher-ranking magi are more attuned with spells like that. Their body would be more resistant than lower ranks. For it to effect higher ranking magi more than lower ranking magi wouldn't really make sense because the higher the rank you are, the more likely you are trained to deal with instances like this versus someone who's not as trained as you are.
    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.
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    Cirven

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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Cirven on 8th January 2017, 10:48 am

    Welp, Marcy hit everything on the head that I was going to say so all I can do is follow it up a bit lol. Look for this color

    Shard wrote:Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.

    This is something that makes sense but at the same time doesn't do much at all for AoE spells. Also throwing more numbers into things will just complicate everything more. It should be fine with how things are, especially this is an RP site so we shouldn't make apps super focused on more PvP-like rules and numbers. So I'm thinking we leave it how it is for now especially with how Marcy stated the highest damage is at the epicenter and then outside of that takes less.

    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.

    This could work but then again this could also be like how Marcy stated above with a weakness where each post they can only fire so many shots and dealing so much damage each shot. I have a spell like that where I can shoot 2 times per post and they deal the spell's rank in damage if one hits but maxes out at only one rank of damage. Meaning if I hit them with the second shot after the first it will deal no damage.

    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.

    Like Marcy said above, this doesn't make sense to have. Throughout the entire time I was on staff as a mod, probably before that and until now, higher ranked mages always were affected by lower ranked spells less than mages closer to that rank because a higher ranked mage would naturally have more power and experience with being hit with spell effects making them weaker the lower the rank is compared to them. Even in your example too there is a hole there. If the higher rank has more experience they would figure out what the spell did and naturally work against it and most likely be able to do that because of their experience being greater than lower ranks. Also what if a lower rank had been trained for years in honing their reflexes? They should be affected just as badly, if not worse than a higher rank mage, right? What if you use it on a mage who rarely uses their reflexes like one who usually has some sort of barrier up to protect them at most, if not all times? It would affect them less, if not do nothing at all. Too many ways that can go which can completely depend on the characters affected by it and less by their rank which falls onto RP and story more than rank but apps are graded in the PvP mindset to prepare every app for RP so because of that it would have to fall under the 'Higher the rank of the affected vs the rank of spell, the less affect' rule. Sorry for the long explanation, Zack. You know it used to be when we discussed things like this lol


    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.

    Pretty sure this is something we discussed in the past but Natsu in cannon did consume God Slayer flames. It was when he had no MP left and became a sort of desperation thing he used. I do agree that people do need more reason to be immune to slayers somehow which should simply come down to story of the magic like they are using a tainted version of flames which give them the dark element or vice versa against fire slayers or something. Its a simple addition to add to the strength they put done as to why and/or put into their description as to why it is that way.



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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Shard on 8th January 2017, 11:45 am

    Marceline Anicetus wrote:
    Statements, questions, concerns, and overall opinion stated in this color.
    Shard wrote:Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.

    I don't understand the point in increasing the 75% to 80%. It makes very little difference at all to increase it to 80% (given that is just an example I presume, but if it's solid. . .). Increasing the AoE to 80% will only crease it by 1HP, meaning a D-rank AoE would deal 16HP at the 75% mark instead of 15HP at the 75% mark. Also, to increase the extensiveness of an AoEs damage wouldn't make sense in the long run because it takes away the point of an AoE dealing less damage the farther it away from the epicenter. You don't see an atomic bomb dealing extreme damage to those outside of its epicenter, or an earthquake dealing damage to those outside of its epicenter. Granted, there are magi on the site who have AoEs that deal 100% over the entire range. To me, it doesn't make sense to change this at all.

    The thing is this isn't an AOE spell like an explosion. This is an AOE that hits the entire area. I used a rain cloud as an example because everything in the area is hit equally by the rain. There is no 'centre' of the blast. Sure there's a middle of the area hit by the rain, but that isn't going to get someone more wet then any other part of the area.

    So I see there being two types of AOE. Once which has a central point and blasts outwards and one which just covers an area equally. I used 80% as example, but if they can have 100% then that is fine. I just thought it should be clarified

    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.

    This is what we call a requip weapon. Requip weapons deal natural armed damage when not using their active. You can have as many bullets as you want that all deal armed melee damage when fired. And if this was to take place, you'd still have the issue of a long duration resulting in a longer cooldown. I doubt anyone would want a spell like this when it comes to events/pvp and they have to have a long cooldown simply because it as a long/"unlimited" duration.

    Except it isn't really a requip concept. Its more I summon up two energy balls and these will do half a D rank damage each. However, I can choose when to fire them. The cooldown wouldn't need to be extreme in my opinion. I think it could have the same cooldown as a regular spell. The only difference is it can't start cooling down till both shots are fired.

    However, I do see your point to some extent. I might have to consider that for the future

    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.

    To be honest, I believe this technically already exists. You can have spells effect higher-ranking magi as long as the result is minimum since higher-ranking magi are more attuned with spells like that. Their body would be more resistant than lower ranks. For it to effect higher ranking magi more than lower ranking magi wouldn't really make sense because the higher the rank you are, the more likely you are trained to deal with instances like this versus someone who's not as trained as you are.

    The issue I have here is that I think it having a weakness that is near useless on lower ranked mages, but works better the stronger the opponent is works out quite fairly.

    Yes a higher ranked mage is more likely to be used to strange occurences happening, but they are also more likely to rely on their reflexes and such more than a D rank. Thats generally one of the biggest differences between lower ranked fighters and higher ranked fighters. Lower ranks think too much whilst higher ranks barely think at all their bodies reacting perfectly to the situation.

    Rapture/rupture magic is another example. Based on the site's rules this magic would have to do less damage on higher ranks when that is basically the opposite of how this magic works. Higher ranks have more magic power and thus more magic power to compress and explode thus they receive greater damage etc.

    I just think its a shame when creative spells/ideas get turned down or have to be basically scrapped because of 'oh higher ranks have be immune because higher ranked'. Especially when its not something completely overpowered and has good weaknesses, but what do i know.

    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.

    My comments are in teal.

    I did have another point and that is that we shouldn't allow rank to determine everything.
    A D rank utility spell shouldn't immediately become useless just because someone is A rank.

    For example, if a spell works by bending light to make someone invisible then no matter what rank you are you aren't going to be able to see them because thats not how eyesight works.

    More likely to notice inconsistencies maybe, more likely to be able to sense magic power almost certainly. However just 'nope they have to be immune to the effects' just makes higher ranks having low ranked spells almost pointless.

    Which does lead onto my points about trading the extra spell slots you can get for higher ranked spell slots and 'breaking' the current limits by sacrificing those lower ranked slots.


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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Guest on 8th January 2017, 12:05 pm

    Shard wrote:
    Marceline Anicetus wrote:
    Statements, questions, concerns, and overall opinion stated in this color.
    Shard wrote:Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.

    I don't understand the point in increasing the 75% to 80%. It makes very little difference at all to increase it to 80% (given that is just an example I presume, but if it's solid. . .). Increasing the AoE to 80% will only crease it by 1HP, meaning a D-rank AoE would deal 16HP at the 75% mark instead of 15HP at the 75% mark. Also, to increase the extensiveness of an AoEs damage wouldn't make sense in the long run because it takes away the point of an AoE dealing less damage the farther it away from the epicenter. You don't see an atomic bomb dealing extreme damage to those outside of its epicenter, or an earthquake dealing damage to those outside of its epicenter. Granted, there are magi on the site who have AoEs that deal 100% over the entire range. To me, it doesn't make sense to change this at all.

    The thing is this isn't an AOE spell like an explosion. This is an AOE that hits the entire area. I used a rain cloud as an example because everything in the area is hit equally by the rain. There is no 'centre' of the blast. Sure there's a middle of the area hit by the rain, but that isn't going to get someone more wet then any other part of the area.

    So I see there being two types of AOE. Once which has a central point and blasts outwards and one which just covers an area equally. I used 80% as example, but if they can have 100% then that is fine. I just thought it should be clarified


    This is not considered an Area of Effect spell then, this is considered a normal spell that affects the whole area. There is nothing stopping you from stating such a thing is able to do that anyway, it just wouldn't be considered an Area of Effect. If you want different types of AoE spells, I suggest you start playing MMORPGs; so, I'll repeat what I've stated multiple times. This site is not an MMORPG, it's not going to work like one and it never well. Adding more PvP or changing PvP aspects to a now low-PvP site doesn't make sense at all. It isn't all about fighting or ranking up at all, it's about the story of the character.
    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.

    This is what we call a requip weapon. Requip weapons deal natural armed damage when not using their active. You can have as many bullets as you want that all deal armed melee damage when fired. And if this was to take place, you'd still have the issue of a long duration resulting in a longer cooldown. I doubt anyone would want a spell like this when it comes to events/pvp and they have to have a long cooldown simply because it as a long/"unlimited" duration.

    Except it isn't really a requip concept. Its more I summon up two energy balls and these will do half a D rank damage each. However, I can choose when to fire them. The cooldown wouldn't need to be extreme in my opinion. I think it could have the same cooldown as a regular spell. The only difference is it can't start cooling down till both shots are fired.

    However, I do see your point to some extent. I might have to consider that for the future


    It would still end up being considered a multihit spell with lowered damage per amount of projectiles, only difference is a longer duration, but as duration/cooldowns stand, cooldowns would always be longer than the duration, hence the long cooldown in the end.
    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.

    To be honest, I believe this technically already exists. You can have spells effect higher-ranking magi as long as the result is minimum since higher-ranking magi are more attuned with spells like that. Their body would be more resistant than lower ranks. For it to effect higher ranking magi more than lower ranking magi wouldn't really make sense because the higher the rank you are, the more likely you are trained to deal with instances like this versus someone who's not as trained as you are.

    The issue I have here is that I think it having a weakness that is near useless on lower ranked mages, but works better the stronger the opponent is works out quite fairly.

    Yes a higher ranked mage is more likely to be used to strange occurences happening, but they are also more likely to rely on their reflexes and such more than a D rank. Thats generally one of the biggest differences between lower ranked fighters and higher ranked fighters. Lower ranks think too much whilst higher ranks barely think at all their bodies reacting perfectly to the situation.

    Rapture/rupture magic is another example. Based on the site's rules this magic would have to do less damage on higher ranks when that is basically the opposite of how this magic works. Higher ranks have more magic power and thus more magic power to compress and explode thus they receive greater damage etc.

    I just think its a shame when creative spells/ideas get turned down or have to be basically scrapped because of 'oh higher ranks have be immune because higher ranked'. Especially when its not something completely overpowered and has good weaknesses, but what do i know.


    But that weaknesses doesn't logically make sense for a weaker mage to be less effected by a spell they're not attuned with compared to someone of higher rank. Why should someone with less experience be considered better than someone with more experience in dealing with a spell like this? This, overall, doesn't have logic in its working and would throw common sense way off balance.
    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.

    My comments are in teal.

    I did have another point and that is that we shouldn't allow rank to determine everything.
    A D rank utility spell shouldn't immediately become useless just because someone is A rank.

    For example, if a spell works by bending light to make someone invisible then no matter what rank you are you aren't going to be able to see them because thats not how eyesight works.

    More likely to notice inconsistencies maybe, more likely to be able to sense magic power almost certainly. However just 'nope they have to be immune to the effects' just makes higher ranks having low ranked spells almost pointless.

    Which does lead onto my points about trading the extra spell slots you can get for higher ranked spell slots and 'breaking' the current limits by sacrificing those lower ranked slots.
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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Cirven on 8th January 2017, 12:11 pm

    Shard wrote:
    Marceline Anicetus wrote:
    Statements, questions, concerns, and overall opinion stated in this color.
    Shard wrote:Hi everyone,

    Shard here. A lot of you know me. Some don't. Maybe some of you know me better as Zack or Naraku or one of the many many names i've had on site.

    Recently, whilst creating one of my new character's magics a few things came up that made me think that there are perhaps a couple of things missing from the magic rules.

    -----------------------------------
    The most obvious one is AOE spells.
    Well, perhaps not the most obvious because we already have rules for AOE don't we. One person gets 100% and the rest get 75%.

    However, that only really works for projectiles with an explosion of some sort at the end. Let's give an example of what I mean.

    I fire a fireball at person A. They get the full extent of that damage, but the fireball explodes on contact scorching those within the range doing 75% of the total damage to each of them.

    This is great and works well. It makes sense.


    However, what happens if say I have a rain cloud above an area that pours down rain equally on everyone. IT doesn't make sense for one person to get more damage than others because everyone is hit equally. I'm not 100% sure how these should be handled though.

    My initial thought is something like 75% for everyone in the area, but then that would make them potentially weaker than a normal one because you don't get to do 100% damage to anyone.

    So perhaps how this should work is that it should do slightly more damage to everyone, but never 100% to anyone. Something like 80%. Slightly more.

    I don't understand the point in increasing the 75% to 80%. It makes very little difference at all to increase it to 80% (given that is just an example I presume, but if it's solid. . .). Increasing the AoE to 80% will only crease it by 1HP, meaning a D-rank AoE would deal 16HP at the 75% mark instead of 15HP at the 75% mark. Also, to increase the extensiveness of an AoEs damage wouldn't make sense in the long run because it takes away the point of an AoE dealing less damage the farther it away from the epicenter. You don't see an atomic bomb dealing extreme damage to those outside of its epicenter, or an earthquake dealing damage to those outside of its epicenter. Granted, there are magi on the site who have AoEs that deal 100% over the entire range. To me, it doesn't make sense to change this at all.

    The thing is this isn't an AOE spell like an explosion. This is an AOE that hits the entire area. I used a rain cloud as an example because everything in the area is hit equally by the rain. There is no 'centre' of the blast. Sure there's a middle of the area hit by the rain, but that isn't going to get someone more wet then any other part of the area.

    So I see there being two types of AOE. Once which has a central point and blasts outwards and one which just covers an area equally. I used 80% as example, but if they can have 100% then that is fine. I just thought it should be clarified

    ---------------------------------
    Secondly, we have ammo based spells. These are spells i'd define as you activating them and they give you a limited number of shots you can launch. These are not the same as multi-hit techniques exactly.

    An example would be creating six orbs of light which I can fire off. I can fire these off at any point and until all six are used the spell doesn't go on cooldown.

    The weakness of this spell is that until all shots are used the spell cannot cooldown and so can't be reused.

    Think of it like charging a gun with magic. The gun stores the magic and can fire it off as bullets, but you can't charge it with anymore magic until all shots are fired and the gun has had time to 'cooldown'.

    This is what we call a requip weapon. Requip weapons deal natural armed damage when not using their active. You can have as many bullets as you want that all deal armed melee damage when fired. And if this was to take place, you'd still have the issue of a long duration resulting in a longer cooldown. I doubt anyone would want a spell like this when it comes to events/pvp and they have to have a long cooldown simply because it as a long/"unlimited" duration.

    Except it isn't really a requip concept. Its more I summon up two energy balls and these will do half a D rank damage each. However, I can choose when to fire them. The cooldown wouldn't need to be extreme in my opinion. I think it could have the same cooldown as a regular spell. The only difference is it can't start cooling down till both shots are fired.

    However, I do see your point to some extent. I might have to consider that for the future

    -----------------------------------
    Thirdly we have inverse effect spells. These are spells that are tricky to write, but essentially they will do greater effect to those stronger than you because of one reason or another.

    The example I have is a spell that effects a person's perception of direction by messing with the electrical impulses of the body. This works better on those of higher rank because they are more accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction. A D rank who hasn't had much combat experience will not have developed these reflexes and instincts so the spell will have less effect on them whilst an S rank or H rank would be so used to fighting by reflex or instinct that the spell has a great effect on them because they are reacting before they have a chance to think.

    The big weakness of these is that you can use it to counter high ranks, but whilst you're focused on them the low ranks gank you.

    To be honest, I believe this technically already exists. You can have spells effect higher-ranking magi as long as the result is minimum since higher-ranking magi are more attuned with spells like that. Their body would be more resistant than lower ranks. For it to effect higher ranking magi more than lower ranking magi wouldn't really make sense because the higher the rank you are, the more likely you are trained to deal with instances like this versus someone who's not as trained as you are.

    The issue I have here is that I think it having a weakness that is near useless on lower ranked mages, but works better the stronger the opponent is works out quite fairly.

    Yes a higher ranked mage is more likely to be used to strange occurences happening, but they are also more likely to rely on their reflexes and such more than a D rank. Thats generally one of the biggest differences between lower ranked fighters and higher ranked fighters. Lower ranks think too much whilst higher ranks barely think at all their bodies reacting perfectly to the situation.

    Rapture/rupture magic is another example. Based on the site's rules this magic would have to do less damage on higher ranks when that is basically the opposite of how this magic works. Higher ranks have more magic power and thus more magic power to compress and explode thus they receive greater damage etc.

    I just think its a shame when creative spells/ideas get turned down or have to be basically scrapped because of 'oh higher ranks have be immune because higher ranked'. Especially when its not something completely overpowered and has good weaknesses, but what do i know.

    ------------------------------------
    Now most of our rules are fine, but i feel at the moment we too strictly follow them because some people aren't aware that there are other variants possible.

    I'd also like it added that people can't just make themselves immune to slayers because reasons. They need to have a genuine reason in the magic as a whole not just 'this spell is fire, but its errr special fire so slayers can't eat it'. We've seen in canon people eat variants of their element. Natsu ate all types of rainbow fire for example even though he thought some tasted horrible. Tehe only flames that he couldn't eat were god slayer or ones mixed with another element.

    My comments are in teal.

    I did have another point and that is that we shouldn't allow rank to determine everything.
    A D rank utility spell shouldn't immediately become useless just because someone is A rank.

    For example, if a spell works by bending light to make someone invisible then no matter what rank you are you aren't going to be able to see them because thats not how eyesight works.

    More likely to notice inconsistencies maybe, more likely to be able to sense magic power almost certainly. However just 'nope they have to be immune to the effects' just makes higher ranks having low ranked spells almost pointless.

    Which does lead onto my points about trading the extra spell slots you can get for higher ranked spell slots and 'breaking' the current limits by sacrificing those lower ranked slots.

    Don't think your opinion doesn't matter much at all. You did help create a good amount that is on site before you stepped down so people do look at what you say a bit harder than some.

    Higher ranks have always had more resistance against lower ranked spells really and I say resistance as a resistance not an immunity. Lower ranked spells affect higher ranks less like a spell that would affect a higher rank's reflexes like you said, would be lessened due to it being a spell affecting them. Plus my explanation as to why it all gets more complicated with your reasoning behind it and why it should be judged that way because things are graded with PvP in mind even though the site is not PvP focused. You know why it is that way too with our past experience with dealing in things.


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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Shard on 8th January 2017, 12:21 pm


    The issue I have is when the spells I create are graded as if they are to be used for PVP.
    My rain spell example is an AOE spell. Its a spell that hits everything in an area thus it has an 'area of effect' rather than a single target. However, as Marcy said it should do equal damage to everything in the area and yet...it is treated as one person gets hit more by staff.

    The inverse effect thing was inspired from another anime and yet 'because rank' its immediately shut down despite being a single spell that was mostly made for fun and yet I have to change it entirely basically negating the point entirely.


    When spun, the sword creates a pink mist. Those who smell its pleasant aroma fall subject to an optical illusion. Shinji describes the release technique as something like a trump card. Up and down, left and right as well as forward and backward are reversed. However, it is not just the sense of direction that is changed; the opponent's eyesight, direction of incoming attacks, and injury locations are also inverted. Shinji claims that countering the damage from the inverted directions simply by processing it all within the mind is not possible. No matter how powerful the opponent, especially if one is accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction, which causes them to continuously succumb to the power's effect.


    Creative things like using the water to drag someone towards you to do damage and them getting extra damage if they collide with something is denied because 'thats more damage than a spell of that rank can do'. I just feel if we are going to say story and stuff then creativity should be looked at more, but that might just be me.




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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Cirven on 8th January 2017, 12:31 pm

    Shard wrote:
    The issue I have is when the spells I create are graded as if they are to be used for PVP.
    My rain spell example is an AOE spell. Its a spell that hits everything in an area thus it has an 'area of effect' rather than a single target. However, as Marcy said it should do equal damage to everything in the area and yet...it is treated as one person gets hit more by staff.

    The inverse effect thing was inspired from another anime and yet 'because rank' its immediately shut down despite being a single spell that was mostly made for fun and yet I have to change it entirely basically negating the point entirely.


    When spun, the sword creates a pink mist. Those who smell its pleasant aroma fall subject to an optical illusion. Shinji describes the release technique as something like a trump card. Up and down, left and right as well as forward and backward are reversed. However, it is not just the sense of direction that is changed; the opponent's eyesight, direction of incoming attacks, and injury locations are also inverted. Shinji claims that countering the damage from the inverted directions simply by processing it all within the mind is not possible. No matter how powerful the opponent, especially if one is accustomed to fighting, their body will not be able to adapt due to their reflexes preventing proper reaction, which causes them to continuously succumb to the power's effect.


    Creative things like using the water to drag someone towards you to do damage and them getting extra damage if they collide with something is denied because 'thats more damage than a spell of that rank can do'. I just feel if we are going to say story and stuff then creativity should be looked at more, but that might just be me.



    The thing is, everything is graded with PvP in mind. Its been like that because otherwise why would we grade apps? There would be little reason to grade things with nothing to think of people going against others. This is because in jobs you control how you deal with the enemies, no matter the rank and abilities those enemies have.

    Also, every staff member grades differently. They are all different people so they naturally don't all think the exact same so they might grade things different too. If you have something you want a second opinion on you can always ask for another staffy to look at it or something.

    This should be stuff you know because you and I did it in the past as staff so I'm sort of confused here.... lol


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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Shard on 8th January 2017, 12:37 pm

    Yeah I know every staff grades differently and I know it has to be graded for PVP to some extent, but the rules were always guidelines when I graded rather than hard and fast things.


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    Re: Additions to magic rules

    Post by Anastasia Isayev on 8th January 2017, 6:48 pm

    Certainly the distance and speed are all guidelines, but the staff will not allow a spell to do 5x it's rank in damage, a B Rank spell traveling up to 800 meters, nor will staff allow a C Rank spell to travel at the speed of sound. While they ARE guidelines, there is some wiggle-room. And requesting to do those kind of things are far outside of the wiggle room we do allow.


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