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    Post by Rosetta Crawford on 11th May 2016, 6:59 am

    HP REGEN
    As has been said by others HP regen as a thing is too overpowered as it is.

    let's use an example
    Mage A is a C rank mage with a 15% regen rate
    Mage B is a C rank mage with a 5% regen rate

    Both of them hit eachother with a C rank spell for max damage.
    Thats 40hp damage each.

    That brings them down from 200hp to 160hp.

    Mage A then recovers 5% of their HP which is 10hp
    Mage B then recovers 15% of their HP which is 30hp.

    Essentially they have negated 75% of the damage of a spell without having to do anything at all. This means if the two mages are equal in RP skill, equipment, stats etc then mage A is pretty much guaranteed a win because mage B cannot do anywhere near as much damage.

    Its even worse if its melee damage. Base melee damage for a C rank is 10hp. Meaning even the generic 5% HP regen completely negates it if the opponent only hits once.

    I realise that changing the maxes and mins would mean tons of works modifying apps and the like. HEck it would mean changing a few lineages as well, including customs.

    So what I suggest is we just tweak slightly how regen works.

    You only regen health if you successfully avoid damage for 2 posts or even one post. Or even you don't regen the full amount if you are damaged in that post. e.g. if you are hit in a post you can regen 5% of the damage taken in that post (rather than 5% of your HP) or something.

    If regen isn't fixed somehow we might as well scrap PVP altogether because people will have to go to ridiculous lengths and make apps really generic in order to counter it. Especially as every tom, dick and harry has it.

    And please don't shoot this down with 'everything else would have to be nerfed or something' because it really wouldn't.

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    ELEMENTAL BODY
    Now let's look at another concept that came up recently: Elemental body as made popular by Juvia.

    I have had people come to me (which is weird) because their apps got denied despite basically mimicking the structure of another person's app for elemental body. Now I don't agree with copying, but in truth there is little choice. We do not have elemental body in any of the rules. We have it in the mod guidelines and that's it.

    I would like this added to the rules so we have something to work with. Doesn't have to be hard and fast rules, but some guidelines.

    What constitutes an elemental body? What benefits does it provide? What drawbacks does it give?
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    Races
    Now I know we don't have a race system on site, but I also know we have a lot of people who want to be other races. I've been undead, celestial spirit, part monkey, part demon...and so on and that's just me.

    I feel that physical changes such as 'having a tail' or 'having claws' as purely physical traits (so no extra damage added) should only have to be in the character app and not as a unique ability in the magic as it is not a part of the magic but part of the person. If it only gives the equivalent of a 'weak rank weapon' then it also shouldn't need to be in magic app as weak rank weapons are free.

    If it provides more than that or provides other abilities e.g. can see in the dark or can stretch their limbs to twice their length then yes that should be in the magic app.

    So I'd just like some guidelines on races and some clarifications
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    Holder Items

    A holder item is an item through which one casts their magic. This can be keys, weapons, armors, items etc. Something that can be taken away from them and essentially nullify their magic/spells.

    Recently I have seen applications where people have had artificial organs/limbs etc as holder items and that is fine as those limbs/organs can be removed. I'm a bit iffy about organs as removing an organ isn't exactly easy and if 2nd gen slayers don't count as holder even though they have a crystal embedded into them then why should someone with an embedded organ. However, thats another debate (i.e. what exactly are holder and caster).

    My issues comes from the fact that I have seen an app where someone takes over a body like a parasite (a la venom/carnage) and because that 'body' is not their own body it consitutes as a holder item. This essentially means that the person has a full body of 100% indestructible armor with no weak spots or chinks essentially making them impossible to damage. I honestly don't feel that a full body should be allowed as a holder item. You takeover a body you're essentially a vulcan and if a vulcan's body was damaged enough then the host was ejected from it. (Think the Macao arc of the manga)


    So what i'm saying is we just need more of a definition on what a holder item is, especially as they are indestructible (with the exception of requipped armor/weapons/items).





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    Post by Raiza on 11th May 2016, 8:04 am

    I agree with all points, and half-agree with point 1.

    There are a ton of spells out there that do near rank worth of damage per post just by being in a range of aura for example, or being near the opponent. OR tonna DoT that has many X-factors, rendering healing useless. There are a multitude of ways to counter healing outright, far more ways that are even needed.

    So while yes, I agree it needs tweaked, I do not agree in the straight just 'lowering it' to satisfy those that do not use it as part of their magic.

    So, I'm counter suggesting this by saying, while yes we should limit it, we should only limit 'passive' healing not caused by a spell. Cause at least a spell lasts only so long. Let the 15% stay for spells, but I'd suggest passive healings be reduced to only allowing 10% at the most a post. Out of combat however, I hate the 25% limit... out of combat = RP/Plot = nearly no guidelines.... so we should get rid of limiting the healing while out of combat & make a post limit to say how long out of combat you must be (So no cheap insta heal out, then go back in kind of thing)


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    Post by Eris on 11th May 2016, 8:42 am

    I think we really need to tone down the amount of changes that are constantly in motion.   Changes that effect existing applications damage a site and can eventually kill them,  and should only be applied if absolutely necessary.  I feel the same way about pulling magic applications that don't need it.  In either situation it really needs to be evaluated by everyone involved and not some elite class of authority figures,  but by the members themselves as well, who would be damaged by such changes.

    To which I'd also point out that PvP is not a typical focus of the site,  neither should it be considered as such.  Treating everything as though it was and being overly strict and zealous in nerfing everything to tartarus and back only drags the site down and limits enjoyment if not eliminates it due to stresses,  and heaven knows there are already heaping piles of stress to be had as evident by how often you see people leave due to it.

    Fun is something that I feel often gets pushed to the wayside here.


    ----


    To get that 15% regeneration you would have to invest into doing so with at least three different sources.   Primary Magic,  Secondary Magic,  Lineage,  for example.   Even then 5% is only the maximum allowed for passive regeneration,  but is often restricted to 2%-4%,  meaning you'd also need to throw in anywhere from 1-4 passive items. 

    Mage A invested heavily into having that advantage.  Mage B would have invested that same effort elsewhere for his/her own advantages,  likely more damage output.   Each and every spell if having a valid cause can do up to 50% extra damage.  Mage B may have also invested more damage in place of HP regeneration.   Mage B may have been doing considerably more damage in your limited example than is represented. 

    There are endurance buffs,  there are damage buffs,  there are damage resistances, and there are evasion - speed buffs.   Everything has it's niche and purpose.

    The only problem in particular is RPers not properly knowing how to let themselves take a hit.   People often ignore attacks or might as well have ignored attacks with how casually they "dodge" everything.  But I cannot blame them,  because this site forces such ridiculously slow projectile velocities sometimes that it makes no sense and would in fact be that easy to dodge,  for normal humans even a lot of the time let alone mages that are essentially superheros. 


    ---


    I wouldn't mind elemental body rules as a guideline not damaging existing apps.   "Guideline" tends to be confused with "Hard fact" and "Strict rule" here though.    

    There are so many varieties and potential different interpretations and uses for different types of elemental bodies however.   

    I don't think it is necessary at all though.  Staff just need to not be so up tight about applications in general and review them as they come as independent unique abilities such as they are. 



    ---


    Racial allowances would be very beneficial.   Many people already do just that,  using the Special Features on their character apps.  Some people have wings and can fly,  some people don't age,  some people are immortal.  Others have tails, claws, horns,  alternate appearances and so on.

    It could easily just be added to the rules and/or included in the Character App Template under special features stating that you can include minor racial characteristics there,  including minor magical ones that are more cosmetic in nature with limited usage in combat except if it falls in line with free abilities or uses the basic unarmed damage rules in a limited way.

    ---


    I was expecting a suggestion regarding how limited holder items were,   now I'm confused instead.

    To my knowledge and experience stalking apps,  which I've always done to feel how the site is functioning and the general balance levels as well as how some staff review things vs others,   holder items seem to usually be required to be a normal item slot item.   A Weak,  a Strong,  a Legendary, or an Artifact.

    As such I've been under the impression they are subject to damage just the same as their rank.  Which, furthermore,  doesn't even appear to rank up with them.   

    The only actual rules on the matter seem to be that they cannot be broken or stolen as you've said with the indestructibility.   


    They could certainly use some clearing up,  including allowing a Holder Item to rank up with you automatically,  and be free.  But no longer indestructible.   You'd have advantage in having that free item,  at the cost of being vulnerable through reliance on that item.


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    Post by Merlin Ambrosius on 11th May 2016, 10:00 am

    This is exactly why Zack... that I suggest and implement the "Mixed Blood" system. Its easily established and it can be easily organized. IF you wanna see it then follow this link.

    WE can easily created that system here and balance everything about races from there. Its a quick-fix but I need the approval of every staff member or mod here, otherwise your idea and mine will not go through.


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    Post by Shard on 11th May 2016, 10:40 am

    Whilst i agree there are way around healing it is currently quite overpowered completely negating the point of a lot of things.

    However, I don't want apps nerfed or changed. Hence why I suggested just tweaking how HP regen works slightly so that its not quite as overpowered but people can keep the percentages they want.

    In terms of outside PVP I really don't care how much Hp you regen. However, if you are in PVP there should be some limits to it. Perhaps have this 'tweak' only apply to PVP battles. Therefore everyone is happy. Those not in PVP get to stay as they are, those in PVP don't get fucked over by it. SImple
    ----------------------
    Elemental body is more the fact I KNOW the moderator's have guidelines in their section. I have seen them. I just want those guidelines visible to members and if a member can point to an app and say they have it like this and I do so it should be good right? and staff can be like yeah totally. Rather than 'nah you can't have it but they can'
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    Racials being added to apps is fine with me. For those who want it they can edit their apps, for those who don't they don't have to bother.
    ----------------------
    Holder items do not take up an item slot. They are just some extra item you have. Otherwise a celestial key mage would need a slot for each key. Holder items are also indestructible because otherwise that person loses their magic entirely. I am ok with them being destroyed myself as it does give an extra weakness, but it would make holders far less desirable.


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    Post by Miyuki( みゆき) on 11th May 2016, 11:02 am

    Sigh,too much math.


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    Post by Anastasia Isayev on 11th May 2016, 11:34 am

    To be perfectly honest, PvP elements aren't even that prevalent on the site. However, you do bring up a few valid points.

    - HP Regen: This is quite the interesting bugger, ain't it? To be honest, due to the weak PvP mechanic of this site, this was bound to happen. I personally don't really like HP regen being a passive UA thing to begin with. If the regen was a spell, then I could easily reconcile it's usage. Though if it's that big of a problem, I would probably suggest to the Dev team to restrict HP regen to PvE only. And even then, HP regen, as magic, should work similarly to DoT would for damage, in my opinion. HP regen has always been a relatively taboo subject on forum sites such as this one. (Even the previous site I was on, which had a really high PvP focus, shied away from HP Regen).
    But yeah, people are starting to make builds that counter against regen because of how rampant it is in a PvP sense. Though, in my opinion, the PvP elements on this site are kind of a joke :/

    - Elemental Body: Well, I don't think there needs to be separate rules for these as long as they fit within the buffing rules, to be honest. While I wouldn't be against if they were added to the rules as some kind of mechanic like Requip or Take-over, I don't really see the absolute need for guidelines though.

    - Races: I can kinda get on-board with this. However, I believe everyone should have access to weak weaponry naturally (Fists, kicks, claws, teeth, etc) and I don't think that special races getting special natural weapons should be a thing. Even my character Abaddon had natural weaponry which was made with Artifact weaponry. So I don't believe natural weaponry should exist to be perfectly honest. However, I still believe that if your character's race has a special trait, it should still be part of your magic as it favors non-humans above humans.

    - Holder Item: I would like to add on to what you say to encompass everything that can be abused with it. I don't think armor should be allowed as holder items and I don't believe anything implanted into someone's body should be holder items. I think holder items are required to be able to be visibly seen and can easily be knocked away. The way I see it.. if it's something tucked away and hidden, making it a holder item for a magic is stupid and it ought to be considered Caster Magic.
    I can hear gripes about that already being that it's "not fair". Well, if your magic relied on a certain item, you should also keep your holder item in mind and also protect it from being taken away from you. As crappy as that sounds, it is also your decision to keep the item safe. (Note: Address to 'you' is in general and not actually directed towards you, just gotta clarify that bit).
    So yes, if your holder item is a spell book, you better keep a firm hold of your spell book and keep it safe.


    That's really all I have to say about that at the moment. I have other criticisms, but this isn't the time or place for that.


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    Post by Haru-senpai on 11th May 2016, 11:39 am

    The only thing I see worth moving forward on is Races.

    If you're getting Regen'd by someone at equal Rank nullifying damage next post by one of their Spells, then you must not've built your character for physical power. Which is fine. Although I'm going to have to agree with Eris. We need to chill on changes for now.

    Releasing Races with Perks for them at this point is fine. But we need to settle in this Summer. Over improvements and changes became a huge deal so I think we should focus on content rather than infrastructure changes for now.

    -Races

    -Guild Crest Perks

    Things of that nature. We want the site to be familiar to people, noobs, and veterans alike. Not an ever switching rule changing ass pulling session where people can drop new rules on people at any given time due to the rate of them being released. People take breaks for 1 month and come back to an entirely different site. This needs to stop.

    There are other ways to be relevant besides recommending changes to the rules. Some folks, I won't name anyone---are more active with OOC suggestions than they are IC. Which is hilarious---how can you boss something around that you don't participate in yourself? But I digress.

    I make one Suggestion a Year usually at this point, and always put it up for a Vote.

    All that being said, I do think Races is worth expanding upon.


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    Post by Eris on 11th May 2016, 12:05 pm

    Some comments here (and in other suggestions someplaces) don't seem to give any care or regard to existing players or any consideration to actual IC elements of the setting, story, and characters people make, have made,  or may wish to make and are unnecessarily restrictive.   There is no reason that a mage should be any more or less capable in PvP or PvE than the other,  it is the same character in either instance with the same capabilities,  same magic,  same personality,  it's the same.   To randomly gain or lose effectiveness is ridiculous.  


    And on holder items,  it confers no advantage or benefit what so ever to make it be an organ or other implants,  or anything of that nature.   It is not up to you or any rule-maker to restrict it as such.  What a member/player wishes to do is up to them within the general rules that level out the playing field between ranks.   Placing rules against what you can or cannot do when it does not overpower anything for their rank is just an authoritarian overreach of power.    Which is one reason why I avoid sites with ban lists like a plague. (There is no reason ever no matter what anyone says for any type or classification of magic / abilities to be banned.   Any and all magics are still the same rank as any other,  a C-rank spell is a C-rank spell.)    

    Likewise a holder magic that relies on a heart is no better than any other magic,  each magic having their own advantages and abilities.  An implanted holder item isn't even going to be a factor in almost any circumstance,  meanwhile does still have that slight weakness (Without much advantage) compared to a Caster magic.  It is not, however,  a caster magic.  It is a holder.  Such is the theme that that player has chosen to go with for the character that they have dreamed up through their own creative (Even if occasionally not so creative) expression.



    In an effort to achieve some vague concept of "Balance" the site gets dragged down with things that are just not necessary and limiting in all the wrong ways that reduce enjoyment on the site and provoke stress and drama.   Nerfing everything to hell is NOT balance. That is Restriction.

    I already am loathe to ever have to make apps and already try to make things to work around (That is to say,  not involve at all,  entirely different from "Loopholes" a vague term that anyone with authority can on occasion use to their benefit to screw over someone they don't like) certain rules,  such as the rules on spell speeds.   I'd rather make a Touch spell or a Thrown spell for example than deal with a projectile that inexplicably travels at a mere 7-10 m/s,  which even a toddler could dodge,  for example.


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    Post by That Adopted Kid on 11th May 2016, 1:23 pm

    I was basically under the impression of reading the highest levels of power and what is generally accepted and then attempting to match that, and if that level ended up being me or something for some reason I'd expect people to try and match it.

    Bottom line, make people better, not worse.

    If someone wants to try and be invincible, cool go for it, You don't actually have to beat someone's character to beat them, hit other things they care about in character and beat them that way, no character is indestructible, except for the indestructible hobo with no friends or family in a cave. Then again I don't think anyone cares about him!

    Basically, I can't believe I will say this, but I agree with Heero, while it could be considered a problem if someone is upset that another has too much HP regen or did that with their stuff, they could just ask their stuff to be moved back and they buff it up etc. The only real limit is the one where a mod is too strict, or uninformed, which is fine it's a different kind of style but is the main worry of people, and a person's creativity, which is also fine, because it's also okay to lose, you can't perma-die, and if someone says they can they are lying because Seijin said you can't and he overrules all rules lol

    Basically yeah just chill out guy's, Eris and Heero got the right idea right now if people want to be that competitive just move your stuff back and try to match it instead of trying to reduce others effectiveness.

    Excuse any typo's i'm tired as all hell, been up all night with a 9 week old puppy.


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    Post by Almyra Bys on 11th May 2016, 3:23 pm

    Not going to read through everyone's comments, but I have some rather simple answers to the topics addressed in the first post.

    HP regen-
    The dev team has discussed HP regen before and I have an idea that should make it a lot less significant of a factor in battle. I'll bring it up again with the devs.

    Elemental Body-
    I honestly have no clue on this since I don't pay attention to the manga/anime. If it's anything like I think it might be, it could probably be covered with an adaptation of the takeover rules.

    Races-
    I agree on this. If your race doesn't give you anything stronger than a weak weapon for claws, then do whatever you want. Even for minor stuff like seeing in the dark, I don't feel would be necessary as a UA for magic. If a weak weapon or item can do it, race should be able to.

    Holder Items- Honestly, unless you really cheese it, I don't see why it matters what the holder item is (like unless it's a suit of armor or your body). The rules already say that you can't have it taken from you without your permission, so it could easily be something implanted inside of you. And even if your holder item is an armor, it won't provide any protection unless you give it a UA stating that it does so. Even if your armor is unbreakable, you can still hurt people without damaging their armor. Cook them alive in their metal shell, smash them with something big, the force will carry through the armor and into them. You could even add in that holder items can be damaged, just not destroyed. Your nice shiny magic armor can get a hole punctured through it and into you, but that won't break it or stop it from working.


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    Post by redheadedstepchild on 11th May 2016, 3:57 pm

    Why are we still focusing on changing things that really don't need to be changed? Lets be honest for a moment. PVP on this site is a major joke. I dropped one pvp due to how poorly it is set up. If people can't be adult about roleplaying a fight then maybe the best fix to all of this is to simply get rid of PVP all together? If you ask me doing that would fix many more issues than it would cause.

    That being said... HP regen is basically fine. If a writer doesn't want to deal with someone's HP regen then just don't write with them. Problem solved.

    Races. Races are easy. Let folks have some racial traits. It sets them apart without overpowering anything. If you really want to get into it give humans extra mp since they don't have claws, wings or whatever else.

    Elemental body could really function in a similar way to take over. How is this an issue again? That being said if the Devs or Mods have some guidelines somewhere maybe they should make this public to the rest of the site.

    Holder items seem to be fleshed out fairly well and should only be allowed to be taken if it's agreed upon by the writers of whatever thread this comes up in.
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    Post by weretiger5411 on 11th May 2016, 4:52 pm

    Saw this and it incorporates some of things that has been eating at me regarding the site. With Hp regen, holder items, elemental bodies, I will have that summed up in one response.

    Don't rp with them.

    You don't like how Hp regen lets them reduce damage? Don't rp with them

    Don't like elemental body? LEt them have it but if they can't use it without abusing it then don't rp with them.

    You don't like how they may have a indestructible item for their magic that cannot be removed? Don't rp with them.

    Honestly I feel that PvP on this site can only be truly enjoyed if it is between two people who don't mind losing and if they win then yeah their ok with that. Otherwise to constantly move apps back and forth between grading devolves to the point where people add effects like "This effect cannot be negated no matter what" or "This effect can negate no matter what." This actually exists now in a few apps and when I see it I shake my head at it. I mean do you realize the purpose of strengths and weaknesses in a magic? Or piece of equipment? It's to show how with that equipment/magic it shows when it is strong and when it is weak. MEANING that the magic/equipment should find itself in a situation to where it is going to be useless and beaten down to non-existense, the amount of times this happens should directly match the amount of times it is strong and strongest.

    But I got away from my main point, if you don't like someone's app for HP regen, the way they use their holder items, or how they abuse the elemental body perk(if they do), or for whatever reason you may have(because of their magic, lineage, equipment, or for whatever reason), then don't associate with them. If anything if they are as OP as you believe then it's likely that others share your opinion and agree. Any case I have a quote from another site that works like ours below on a different setting, but same idea.

    "Trying to be too powerful in general is called god-modding. Don't do it. Nobody will want to play with you and the staff will get on your case. The less powerful you are, the less of a godmodder you are, and the easier it is for everyone involved.
    Let people hit you. You must let people hit you sometimes. What kind of book would you write where your main hero never takes a beating or never gets hit by anything? One that we don't want to read or partake in."

    Harsh? yes, but a lot of the issues on see this thread brought up come from the possibility of PVP, and I feel we need to be all mature about it. or rather, if you are not willing to admit loss or hurt, death, and crippling on your character then don't engage in it. If you just want to win then people would pick that up fast and learn to avoid you, and in the end you only have yourself to blame for it.

    ................

    Now about the race thing with wings and claws then this should be placed in the magic app or in a weak weapon app if it's for claws or teeth. I mean I believe you can put these in the  strengths and weaknesses of your magic if it allows for it(which no limit on those). This allows benefits and drawbacks for it. Say for example your character has the ability to see in the night, then you can say if they get hit by a bright light then it would blind them for the post. Anyways I did not think the race topic was so much of a issue to begin with.


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    Post by Irina Naginata on 11th May 2016, 5:25 pm

    I'm seeing a lot of people saying that PVP isn't a massive thing so why are we making PVP changes? Well likewise, even though it's not a massive thing it still needs to be balanced any fair otherwise no one would ever do it, and those who do would BS so much that it wouldn't be fun. Yeah nerfs to PVP is annoying cause it's nerfs but just cause you're having fun doesn't mean your opponent is going to have fun therefor we need to try and set it up so that everyone can have fun, this is after all a site for fun to happen.

    Now in regards to HP regen, it is currently too high and it forces people into the cookie cutter where they absolutely must build certain ways to counter it, the only viable ways to counter HP regen is to A. Land all your spells in quick succession (unreliable cause people can block/dodge), B. DoT's which is discouraged by the very existence of HP Regen, and C. Anti-Healing which people are starting to do now cause it's so high. I keep making this argument that HP regen is so high cause it can be trusted that you wont always land all your spells, so it's safe to say that if you cast 3 spells of the same rank you will only reliably hit one per post. @Heero: Also saying that you weren't building right is kinda wrong, sure people can build for lots of damage, I do it I have higher than average damage outputs, but when I use one of my higher than average damage outputs plus land a heavy physical attack at the same time which adds up to a lot of damage and it gets reduced to a measly 2 damage, there's something wrong. And people are starting to make these heavy HP regen characters, because that's what's strong at the moment.

    Here's my case, anything that you do regardless of what your opponent has should feel good 90% of the time, that other 10% is where you did something horribly wrong as a fire mage and challenged a fire slayer to a fight knowing full well they were one. When you add mechanic's like how HP regen is currently carried out then people start to have cases where they only feel good if they can either land massive amounts of damage to the point that HP regen is negligible, or where they aren't up against one of the massive HP regen builds, then it's not good cause now you force people into this state where they attempt to build stuff to counter that mechanic. This is the concept of Meta, where the prime people are those who build a certain way and those who build to specifically counter that way to building are the ones that will get played, and anyone who doesn't have these things will fall by the wayside until they either start to build the same way or the ones that are doing this get nerfed or the ones not doing this get buffed. It's a vicious and unwanted cycle and currently HP Regen falls into this cycle making certain things feel bad. AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO SAY WE WILL NEED TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE IF WE NERF HP REGEN! no we don't, if they are that problematic that HP regen is needed then they probably need changing anyway. Unfortunately change is a thing that happens, and some of you might not like the changes, and yeah I know a lot of changes are being made, but some of them need to be made to keep the site fun for everyone not just the select few the use the site's systems to make or break their characters.

    Now if you do ask what will happen if we do make the changes to HP regen, there are a few things that come to mind. A. DoT's will start to actually be a thing, cause HP regen is the major thing that keeps people from focusing on DoT's not to mention that DoT's are heavily gated by other rules. B. People wont feel forced to either building HP regen or building Anti-Regen cause they wont have to. C. Landing spells, even if it's only one, will actually feel good instead of having this massive HP regen problem acting as a 75% damage reduction. D. The really sad point of having HP regen no longer being a thing, the intended change is to fulfill the fantasy that HP regen is supposed to bring which is this thing that lets you top up while avoiding damage, as opposed to just a somewhat close to but not really damage reduction, but people may not find that useful as they want to be in the fight, brawling it out. This is really only a change for PVP not a change for PVE, no one really cares what happens in PVE cause you have complete control, but what happens in PVP is supposed to be a fun scuffle between two people, and HP regen just makes it unfun its current state.

    The other things are really only quality of life things they aren't major changes besides clarification or in the case of races, just making it so that it's not stuck in a weird spot. The only other thing I feel that needs talking about is Holder Items, cause as it stands Holder items either work one of two ways, you get forced into making them an actual item, or they are a thing you have from your magic app, and some of things people have specifically through magic apps are crazy OP. Yes there is totally a person out there with a human body as a holder item, which is only technically a holder item cause the character isn't actually the human body, which leads to a case of ungodliness cause all they have to do is pull out the holder items are indestructible and they automatically win. Holder items really just need a clarification but not a change in order to avoid this cases where crazy things happen like immortality due to technicality.

    @Merlin on his suggestion for using his Mixed Blood stuff, I read it a while ago, and it kind feels like it would fit in a world, but it doesn't really fit in the FT universe. It feels like you would make it more like everyone is a human with some becoming monsters, when really people should be able to make humanoids that aren't humans (see elves, dwarves, etc.) Races that look like humans are a thing, it should be Races are all humans that are just infected with some sort of monster blood.

    Edit: @ Weretiger: People shouldn't have to feel like they can't play with someone just cause of something in their app, people should be able to walk up to someone say lets fight without having to worry about them pulling some system BS on them. It essentially leads to some people being completely shunned cause no one wants to Play with them cause of how they built themselves. I go back to a statement I made, the Site should be fun for everyone.


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford on 12th May 2016, 12:33 am

    PVP is a joke on site. That I can agree with. Yet people want to do it. However, they get discouraged because of rules that are simply unfair or not thought out very well. The change I proposed for HP regen is TINY. It does not change any apps. It merely means that if you're taking damage then your regen won't be as effective.

    On another site I rped out a situation very similar to this. I had a robotic opponent with a self-repairing body. The more damage I could dish out in rapid succession the slower that regen worked. However, if I didn't manage to hit it for a short while then the regen became a lot swifter.

    Having regen slowed by a person taking damage doesn't take anything away from anyone. It just means that HP regen can be countered without having to build your magic specifically to do so. It also means that unarmed attacks are not pointless. This isn't removing anything or banning anything. It is an over so slight balance which will make PVP more viable.

    The actual PVP system itself needs an overhaul perhaps, but i'll leave that for another topic. The main reason I'm even bothering to raise this as a topic is that HP regen has come up multiple times and i've seen it discussed in skype chats over and over. I've seen PVP battles won or lost purely due to passive HP regen.

    Now I want to emphasise I am not on about spells that cause regen. Do whatever you like with those. Those A. Cost MP B. Aren't constantly on and C. likely have strengths and weaknesses balancing them. I am purely on about passive regen.

    I recall someone saying 'well if a person has spent money on items, weapons etc for HP regen then its unfair to nerf it'. In the case of weapon/armor based hp regen...this I can ok somewhat because it is possible to destroy armor and weapons via combat or disarm/disarmor the person and thus reduce the HP regen. That is a viable strategy in combat.

    Magic items however are trickier. These do not have a HP system, making them indestructible, and because people make things like tattoos or implants as magic items...they are a lot harder to destroy or do anything against. So they become unfair to some extent.

    Passive regen from magic/lineage is impossible to counter. Without a specific spell I can't just remove your HP regen from those. I can't do anything against it.

    If the site is about being fair then things should be counterable other than me building my magic specifically to combat situations. I build my magic for fun and what I think is cool. I don't look at other apps, but its incredibly depressing if I do get into a fight and i'm being outclassed for no other reason than they can heal so quickly I can't really do any damage.

    Now I do have high HP regen I admit, but I don't take part in PVP. However, I have no issue with my passive HP regen being changed to the way I suggested in that it is weakened if I have taken damage in that post.

    As for the 'you don't have to beat them in order to beam them argument'. I agree for the most part. Destroy something they care about and you beat them in one way, but that would not win a PVP match. If you are entering a PVP you are aiming to win to get exp or other rewards or perhaps just for fun, but I doubt you are entering to lose. People should be able to RP with anyone 90% of the time and be able to have fun providing they haven't been stupid.

    HP regen should not be so powerful it is basically the deciding factor in most combat. If two people are equal in skill and stats and the only difference is the amount of HP they regen....then the one with lower HP regen should stand a chance if they are clever. However, they shouldn't have to build their magic purely to combat HP regen.
    ----------------------------
    Elemental body is not the same as takeover. Juvia's magic is not her turning into water temporarily. Her body is actually composed of water. Its a passive ability that basically makes her immune to physical damage.

    In no way am I suggesting that people who have elemental body already have done it badly. However, because the moderators have a guideline on how to grade such apps it means that there are 'rules/guidelines' that the site aren't aware of. I could try to tons of stuff with elemental body, but get it denied because it goes completely against the guidelines.

    All I would like is for those guidelines to be opened up to the site so that there is a reference to work from and we don't get this situation.

    Person A wants elemental body but cannot find any guidelines/rules
    Person A then looks at person B's app who has elemental body fire and has been approved
    Person A essentially copies it word for word but changes elemental body fire to elemental body water and makes a few tweaks so it makes sense for water
    Person A gets their app denied and complains because Person B has it and for some reason staff are saying they can't. It looks like favouritism and that is something we could do without
    ------------------------
    Races are something we can flesh out. These would be cool and it has been brought up before. I think we could have a lot of fun here. However, it would have to be done right.

    Someone mentioned that 'everyone should have weak weapons like punches/kicks' and no that's not true. A punch or a kick is an unarmed attack and everyone does have access to it. However, a punch is not the same as being stabbed with hardened claws or a bladed elbow. The latter is probably going to do more damage(if we don't factor in physical strength).

    Initially it seems unfair that humans would miss out on this perk of having boosted melee damage on some attacks because they don't have claws or whatever.

    However, weak weapons are free. You can have limitless amounts of them. Claw mcclawson has merely made the weak weapon part of their body for fun.

    Other perks from race could be fun as well, but i'd say we either need:
    A. A list of races to pick from and the perks (with some divergences e.g. wood elves and sea elves are different)
    B. Guidelines on what a race can provide.

    With that in place staff have something to work from when grading and members have something to work on when making the app.


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    Post by Irina Naginata on 12th May 2016, 5:20 am

    Zack, if we define races, doesn't that mean we can't be creative and pull out races that otherwise wouldn't be listed. Also wouldn't that mean that they staff get to decide which races can be played and which can't simply because of said rules? I mean it's cool if you have a billion cat girls running around, but if it becomes a thing where someone wants to make a character that is otherwise considered a Deity, they maybe couldn't if it wasn't defined by the rules. It feels like such a change would result in cookie cuttering.


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    Post by Rosetta Crawford on 12th May 2016, 5:48 am

    I'd say a list of defined races that people can work from and incorporate a system for creating races, which can then be approved and added to the list for everyone to use.



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    Post by Irina Naginata on 12th May 2016, 11:52 pm

    Now you've got my creative juices going, the idea of having racial perks comes to mind, but that would be a complicated and kinda infringes on the territory of Lineages though less specific. The idea of racial perks also in turn can actually make or break the site if made improperly. So the idea is there, but the balance issues are on the level of crazy, so I suppose just a simple list of races with no perks is a start.


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